Absolutely bang on.
Who says people can't have fun, clown around but play well and be more entertaining than just putting wrong notes down?
Wych on Whit Friday
- Thread starter hobgoblin
- Start date
Absolutely bang on.
Who says people can't have fun, clown around but play well and be more entertaining than just putting wrong notes down?
blue juice
Member
Not quite, they wouldn't let them put a W in front of the Hores and quite rightly so
MoominDave
Well-Known Member
Thanks!
Hi everyone. This is my first post. Bit of a mini rant as well but don't judge me by that. Just got bugged by this comment vv and felt I wanted my say on it
Sorry, I forgot the students who have to practice for hours and hours every day to get into college and then keep practicing for hours every day so they can pass and stay at college weren't allowed to have a single day where they can go and have some fun. They must be using all their loan money on whit friday booze and can't possibly be using it to pay for tuition and accommodation!
Yes, students (me included) like to have a laugh on these kind of days but we don't all (because I know there are always exceptions to the rule) spend the entire year in a drunken stupour, whatever you read in the Daily Mail.
Personally, the entire year at college can be a stress the entire time because you are constantly competing to get a small paid job or a chance to play in college ensembles as well as trying to impress your teachers and peers, just so you can then go out with a chance of getting a rare job in competive field.
So with all this going on, don't you think its actually great that you still get young players who love brass and get a real kick from playing? One of my favourite things about Whit Friday is that you get to go up and play on the same stage with the very best and the very worst without having to be terrified about splitting a note. Don't get me wrong, I don't take this approach every time I'm there - when I'm there to win, I play to win. When people start lighting their instruments and smashing them on the ground after a performance, that would be when i would say it was getting a little out of hand.
Let people have their only chance to really let their hair down in a performance. If you want to sit in silence scrutinising every performance, go to the areas where people still 'disgrace' themselves in the bars. We're brass players. We're renowned as being the one section in an orchestra thats always having fun. Why, at the only event when we all come together should we lose that aspect?
Sorry, I forgot the students who have to practice for hours and hours every day to get into college and then keep practicing for hours every day so they can pass and stay at college weren't allowed to have a single day where they can go and have some fun. They must be using all their loan money on whit friday booze and can't possibly be using it to pay for tuition and accommodation!
Yes, students (me included) like to have a laugh on these kind of days but we don't all (because I know there are always exceptions to the rule) spend the entire year in a drunken stupour, whatever you read in the Daily Mail.
Personally, the entire year at college can be a stress the entire time because you are constantly competing to get a small paid job or a chance to play in college ensembles as well as trying to impress your teachers and peers, just so you can then go out with a chance of getting a rare job in competive field.
So with all this going on, don't you think its actually great that you still get young players who love brass and get a real kick from playing? One of my favourite things about Whit Friday is that you get to go up and play on the same stage with the very best and the very worst without having to be terrified about splitting a note. Don't get me wrong, I don't take this approach every time I'm there - when I'm there to win, I play to win. When people start lighting their instruments and smashing them on the ground after a performance, that would be when i would say it was getting a little out of hand.
Let people have their only chance to really let their hair down in a performance. If you want to sit in silence scrutinising every performance, go to the areas where people still 'disgrace' themselves in the bars. We're brass players. We're renowned as being the one section in an orchestra thats always having fun. Why, at the only event when we all come together should we lose that aspect?
butterflies
New Member
I don't think anyone is questioning the right of students to let their hair down and have fun, it's just that Whit Fri may not be the best time or place to be drunk or "chemically imbalanced".
Your comments re stress may indicate unsuitability for a musical career, which I don't know enough about to comment on, but it's something you might wish to think about.
Since reading the comments by "students" on here and 4br I've gone from thinking AW was being a bit of a grumpy old git to thinking he may have a good point.
MoominDave
Well-Known Member
It's interesting that the letters on 4BR are from members of "Looney Brass", firmly convinced that it was them and them only who raised the issue with their playing. Contrasts with the way this thread has gone, where the focus has been on the Hula Hores.
SteveT
Member
Just to clarify from, my own point of view!
Raising money for charity .... Excellent!
Putting together a scratch band that gave lots of young dedicated players an experience of Whit Friday .... Brilliant!
Swapping instruments and being drunk .... Not paying the due respect to those who organise and give up lots of their time and money to make sure the event happens every year????? - Simply disrespectful!
Entertain by all means, but do not bring into disrepute - banding and an event which is unique and so, so special, to those who live in the region and hold it in great regard !
Raising money for charity .... Excellent!
Putting together a scratch band that gave lots of young dedicated players an experience of Whit Friday .... Brilliant!
Swapping instruments and being drunk .... Not paying the due respect to those who organise and give up lots of their time and money to make sure the event happens every year????? - Simply disrespectful!
Entertain by all means, but do not bring into disrepute - banding and an event which is unique and so, so special, to those who live in the region and hold it in great regard !
P_S_Price
Member
Its vey much a matter of opinion
I Live in the Region, hold the event in very high regard, but did not feel that H. H's brought the band into disrepute, and certainly laughed out loud at the Cartoon lot (along with nearly everybody else listening).
DMBabe
Supporting Member
I've only just read this thread and the article attached and think "Here we go, the annual slagging of the Scratch Bands by the Whit Friday purists".
As a member of Tartan Brass (a true scratch band who actually all only play together on the day of the contest with members from all over the UK), I can only talk about my experiences with them. We have the option to drink all the way round but operate an "if you're enough under the influence to make a show of the band you don't play on the stand" policy which is universally understood, and most members respect it because they don't want to miss out and we go as a team. Luckily the few times it's happened (generally with first timers) we've had enough "spares" in the pot to cover.
We know we're not there to nick prizes from the big boys, our main purpose is to meet people and get together and have some fun while doing the HOBBY we love. We're an inclusive lot, have players from all contesting sections and because of this we have a different standard of band every year. We are generally well received and have loads of people talking to us because we're a little bit different but not frighteningly so. We don't wear fancy dress, it's just our uniform is a bit different from everyone else......
We've become a bit of an institution at Whit Friday, so much that a couple of our members from last year were on the posters at Denshaw and we featured in another couple of programmes. Organisers often say how glad they are we've come back! Yet we've had ribbings from the old stalwart types year in year out for bringing the event into disrepute. Last year when we first brought out the Big Saltire flag we were even accused of "inciting violence at Uppermill"..... :shock:
The bottom line is scratch bands are one of the things that make the whole event more "joe-public friendly" and accessible. Like has been said before most of the locals don't care whether they're watching Brighouse or Barney the Dinosaur Brass. They like having tunes they can relate to and recognise interspresed with the trad stuff rather than "insert generic road march here" for the 20th time in succession.
The only thing that bugs me is that nobody really hears about some "regular" band being a bit worse for the wear near the end of the night getting named and shamed, yet scratch bands get done for it.... maybe because we're actually memorable and not yet another group in blazers and ties?
Maybe Hula Hores were trying to be "ironic and amusing" but we all know that brass band contests are not a place for such hedonistic outrageous behaviour :roll: and perhaps they overstepped the mark. But the bottom line is Whit friday is an Open "pay as you go" contest where all-comers are welcome (in theory at least) and if it was restricted to only "local" or "registered" bands I think it'd be no better than going to any other contest, instead of the amazing event it is. Also think of the amount of money all the non-local bands bring into the area into the tourism pot (not to mention the grossly extended opening hours at Delph chippie)! I don't think playing like idiots and essentially shooting themselves in the foot with the adjudicator is doing anybody but themselves any harm because scratch bands are heavily restricted in which prizes they can win so it has no effect on "serious" bands. If anything it'll make the next band sound even better.
In a climate where people fear that bands are dying off surely any guise of band should be encouraged at such an event. I know it gets me fired up about banding again every year when I see the whole range of what the Brass Banding Community has to offer and where else could I see it in one place in a few hours. There will always be those who knock stuff that's new or different and sometimes stuff doesn't really work but if nobody tries it then we'd still be sat playing transcriptions of classical overtures..... oh hang on....ig
As a member of Tartan Brass (a true scratch band who actually all only play together on the day of the contest with members from all over the UK), I can only talk about my experiences with them. We have the option to drink all the way round but operate an "if you're enough under the influence to make a show of the band you don't play on the stand" policy which is universally understood, and most members respect it because they don't want to miss out and we go as a team. Luckily the few times it's happened (generally with first timers) we've had enough "spares" in the pot to cover.
We know we're not there to nick prizes from the big boys, our main purpose is to meet people and get together and have some fun while doing the HOBBY we love. We're an inclusive lot, have players from all contesting sections and because of this we have a different standard of band every year. We are generally well received and have loads of people talking to us because we're a little bit different but not frighteningly so. We don't wear fancy dress, it's just our uniform is a bit different from everyone else......
We've become a bit of an institution at Whit Friday, so much that a couple of our members from last year were on the posters at Denshaw and we featured in another couple of programmes. Organisers often say how glad they are we've come back! Yet we've had ribbings from the old stalwart types year in year out for bringing the event into disrepute. Last year when we first brought out the Big Saltire flag we were even accused of "inciting violence at Uppermill"..... :shock:The bottom line is scratch bands are one of the things that make the whole event more "joe-public friendly" and accessible. Like has been said before most of the locals don't care whether they're watching Brighouse or Barney the Dinosaur Brass. They like having tunes they can relate to and recognise interspresed with the trad stuff rather than "insert generic road march here" for the 20th time in succession.
The only thing that bugs me is that nobody really hears about some "regular" band being a bit worse for the wear near the end of the night getting named and shamed, yet scratch bands get done for it.... maybe because we're actually memorable and not yet another group in blazers and ties?
Maybe Hula Hores were trying to be "ironic and amusing" but we all know that brass band contests are not a place for such hedonistic outrageous behaviour :roll: and perhaps they overstepped the mark. But the bottom line is Whit friday is an Open "pay as you go" contest where all-comers are welcome (in theory at least) and if it was restricted to only "local" or "registered" bands I think it'd be no better than going to any other contest, instead of the amazing event it is. Also think of the amount of money all the non-local bands bring into the area into the tourism pot (not to mention the grossly extended opening hours at Delph chippie)! I don't think playing like idiots and essentially shooting themselves in the foot with the adjudicator is doing anybody but themselves any harm because scratch bands are heavily restricted in which prizes they can win so it has no effect on "serious" bands. If anything it'll make the next band sound even better.
In a climate where people fear that bands are dying off surely any guise of band should be encouraged at such an event. I know it gets me fired up about banding again every year when I see the whole range of what the Brass Banding Community has to offer and where else could I see it in one place in a few hours. There will always be those who knock stuff that's new or different and sometimes stuff doesn't really work but if nobody tries it then we'd still be sat playing transcriptions of classical overtures..... oh hang on....
ig 
Brassbones
Member
I've only just read this thread and the article attached and think "Here we go, the annual slagging of the Scratch Bands by the Whit Friday purists".
As a member of Tartan Brass (a true scratch band who actually all only play together on the day of the contest with members from all over the UK), I can only talk about my experiences with them. We have the option to drink all the way round but operate an "if you're enough under the influence to make a show of the band you don't play on the stand" policy which is universally understood, and most members respect it because they don't want to miss out and we go as a team. Luckily the few times it's happened (generally with first timers) we've had enough "spares" in the pot to cover.
We know we're not there to nick prizes from the big boys, our main purpose is to meet people and get together and have some fun while doing the HOBBY we love. We're an inclusive lot, have players from all contesting sections and because of this we have a different standard of band every year. We are generally well received and have loads of people talking to us because we're a little bit different but not frighteningly so. We don't wear fancy dress, it's just our uniform is a bit different from everyone else......
The bottom line is scratch bands are one of the things that make the whole event more "joe-public friendly" and accessible. Like has been said before most of the locals don't care whether they're watching Brighouse or Barney the Dinosaur Brass. They like having tunes they can relate to and recognise interspresed with the trad stuff rather than "insert generic road march here" for the 20th time in succession.
The only thing that bugs me is that nobody really hears about some "regular" band being a bit worse for the wear near the end of the night getting named and shamed, yet scratch bands get done for it.... maybe because we're actually memorable and not yet another group in blazers and ties?
Maybe Hula Hores were trying to be "ironic and amusing" but we all know that brass band contests are not a place for such hedonistic outrageous behaviour :roll: and perhaps they overstepped the mark. But the bottom line is Whit friday is an Open "pay as you go" contest where all-comers are welcome (in theory at least) and if it was restricted to only "local" or "registered" bands I think it'd be no better than going to any other contest, instead of the amazing event it is. Also think of the amount of money all the non-local bands bring into the area into the tourism pot (not to mention the grossly extended opening hours at Delph chippie)! I don't think playing like idiots and essentially shooting themselves in the foot with the adjudicator is doing anybody but themselves any harm because scratch bands are heavily restricted in which prizes they can win so it has no effect on "serious" bands. If anything it'll make the next band sound even better.
In a climate where people fear that bands are dying off surely any guise of band should be encouraged at such an event. I know it gets me fired up about banding again every year when I see the whole range of what the Brass Banding Community has to offer and where else could I see it in one place in a few hours. There will always be those who knock stuff that's new or different and sometimes stuff doesn't really work but if nobody tries it then we'd still be sat playing transcriptions of classical overtures..... oh hang on....
For some reason I read your signature first ...
"My Baps are made for olympic-standard juggling"
and then struggled to concentrate on the rest of the post.
However, I am now convinced that 'bap juggling' should be recongised as an Olympic event and intend to write to Lord Coe to this effect!
DMBabe
Supporting Member
Don't worry about me, I'm doing alright for myself at the moment to be fair. When I say stress, I mostly mean pressure and that its nice to do a contest without feeling any. I'm sticking with my playing career no matter what.
DMBabe has got it spot on that nobody comments on other bands. I remember going out with a second section band who would've put any of the scratch bands to shame on the drinking front and yet there was never any mention of them.
Now I've not been in the scene for decades obviously so that leads me to the question of what should be the target here. Is the target any band consuming alcohol or just the scratch bands because they stand out more? Unless someone with more experience can tell me otherwise, I'd imagine there have been bands going out for years and years and getting smashed way before any costume parties have been involved.
Just a message to Sly Old Fox, I'm not completely disagreeing with you that we shouldn't throw all decency out the window, but I don't find it appropriate to make a jab at student loans when we're not even remotely on that subject. Go to an economist forum if you want to make a gibe about that.
I don't think this issue is a dig at scratch bands. Take for arguments sake AW's last couple of bands Fodens and Faireys. I bet if they went out in fancy dress (for charity) and did the same thing they would recieve the same reaction or worse.
Perhaps they should do - it may help relieve all the pressure of competing at the majors!?
Perhaps they should do - it may help relieve all the pressure of competing at the majors!?
I think it'd be fantastic if that was what it was. Maybe if it became a weekend and there was a traditional march contest where the bands who want to go out and win the money can play and then have another day where all the bands march (in fancy dress or uniform) for charities and the fun of it.
I can understand where AW is coming from because as you say, with the bands he's been playing with, they do take it seriously and are there to win. I have ultimate respect for the guy. I saw him play with Foden's several times and always blown me away but if thats to be asked of every band, it'd have to go into split sections and then it becomes just another contest.
I'm starting to think there is no right or wrong answer. No matter whether it stays the same or turns stricter, there'll always be complaints. It just proves its a proper contest I suppose. Couldn't be one without something to moan about
I can understand where AW is coming from because as you say, with the bands he's been playing with, they do take it seriously and are there to win. I have ultimate respect for the guy. I saw him play with Foden's several times and always blown me away but if thats to be asked of every band, it'd have to go into split sections and then it becomes just another contest.
I'm starting to think there is no right or wrong answer. No matter whether it stays the same or turns stricter, there'll always be complaints. It just proves its a proper contest I suppose. Couldn't be one without something to moan about
cshimmon
Member
I've only just read this thread and the article attached and think "Here we go, the annual slagging of the Scratch Bands by the Whit Friday purists".
As a member of Tartan Brass (a true scratch band who actually all only play together on the day of the contest with members from all over the UK), I can only talk about my experiences with them. We have the option to drink all the way round but operate an "if you're enough under the influence to make a show of the band you don't play on the stand" policy which is universally understood, and most members respect it because they don't want to miss out and we go as a team. Luckily the few times it's happened (generally with first timers) we've had enough "spares" in the pot to cover.
We know we're not there to nick prizes from the big boys, our main purpose is to meet people and get together and have some fun while doing the HOBBY we love. We're an inclusive lot, have players from all contesting sections and because of this we have a different standard of band every year. We are generally well received and have loads of people talking to us because we're a little bit different but not frighteningly so. We don't wear fancy dress, it's just our uniform is a bit different from everyone else......
The bottom line is scratch bands are one of the things that make the whole event more "joe-public friendly" and accessible. Like has been said before most of the locals don't care whether they're watching Brighouse or Barney the Dinosaur Brass. They like having tunes they can relate to and recognise interspresed with the trad stuff rather than "insert generic road march here" for the 20th time in succession.
The only thing that bugs me is that nobody really hears about some "regular" band being a bit worse for the wear near the end of the night getting named and shamed, yet scratch bands get done for it.... maybe because we're actually memorable and not yet another group in blazers and ties?
Maybe Hula Hores were trying to be "ironic and amusing" but we all know that brass band contests are not a place for such hedonistic outrageous behaviour :roll: and perhaps they overstepped the mark. But the bottom line is Whit friday is an Open "pay as you go" contest where all-comers are welcome (in theory at least) and if it was restricted to only "local" or "registered" bands I think it'd be no better than going to any other contest, instead of the amazing event it is. Also think of the amount of money all the non-local bands bring into the area into the tourism pot (not to mention the grossly extended opening hours at Delph chippie)! I don't think playing like idiots and essentially shooting themselves in the foot with the adjudicator is doing anybody but themselves any harm because scratch bands are heavily restricted in which prizes they can win so it has no effect on "serious" bands. If anything it'll make the next band sound even better.
In a climate where people fear that bands are dying off surely any guise of band should be encouraged at such an event. I know it gets me fired up about banding again every year when I see the whole range of what the Brass Banding Community has to offer and where else could I see it in one place in a few hours. There will always be those who knock stuff that's new or different and sometimes stuff doesn't really work but if nobody tries it then we'd still be sat playing transcriptions of classical overtures..... oh hang on....
I've been reading this thread and had decided I wasn't going to join in, but I have to say this...
HALLELUJAH!!!
And as I'm here, I'll throw my lot in. I think any band that allows players to play when they're completely out of it on alcohol, should rethink what they're doing- players in that state should be removed.
I saw a hell of a lot of kids in the audiences, and there were many youth bands taking part- what kind of example is all this drunkeness setting to them? Ok, enjoy yourself, but the behaviour of some- from a variety of bands is simply disgraceful.
SLightly off topic, I won't even go into the number of people that were smoking!
Aidan
Active Member
Thanks Andi, makes it all worthwhile to hear feedback like that
It's definately just a Whit Friday thing, due to logistics, lack of any rehearsal and different members each time
... but am hoping we will be out again next year when the dates look a bit better for me anyway.As far as my opinion goes, we play to entertain ourselves and the audience. We can let ourselves go on the march down but its full concentration on the stand for the contest performance, (obviously already affected by tired lips, alcohol and the lack of any rehearsal!), so you just need to concentrate more and challenge yourself to play the best you can under those circumstances. I enjoy it anyway!
As long as everyone is having a good time and no-one takes any serious offence, it's all good.
Thirteen Ball
Active Member
Sorry DM, I think you've missed the point. No-one's attacking scratch bands in general. Merely debating the behaviour on the stand of one particular band and whether it was appropriate for the occasion or not.
The debate would be the same if it were a regular band who had decided to get drunk, swap instruments and blunder around on the stand playing appallingly badly - albeit the Hula Hores were clearly a noticeable bunch so the debate has centred around them so far. It's not about scratch bands per se, it's about the level of decorum a band - any band - should be expected to maintain on the stand.
If a regular band, monkey-jackets and all, had decided to behave the same way, then my position would be the same.
Bones
Member
Absolutely spot on Donna.... I am sure Bill Clinton in his Uni days thought, I better not have that spliff, I might be president one day........
I think people of any generation are allowed to be young once. After all life is the sum total of your experiences. If we applied the "dont do it cos it might backfire oneday" theory, there would be a lot more defrocked priests.......
MoominDave
Well-Known Member
Can't remember who said this... Remember it being quoted in a Terry Pratchett book, so maybe it was him...
"Good judgement comes from bad experience. Bad Experience comes from bad judgement".
In other words, you've got to get on and make your mistakes now in order to be able to not make them again later on.
"Good judgement comes from bad experience. Bad Experience comes from bad judgement".
In other words, you've got to get on and make your mistakes now in order to be able to not make them again later on.