world's best sound?

ian perks

Active Member
For me it as to be Black Dyke for many years gone by they have a good solid sound in all aspects.
As for euph players past and present
Only one for in the past as to be Lyndon Baglin sound and tone 2nd to none and never lost the tone & sound when playing air varies.
As for present as to be David Childs
 

marksmith

Active Member
Really?

I thought that vib was something the player controlled and should be able to switch off, or on to the level required by the music. Vib isn't expression, it's a decoration (rather than it being a function of the instrument). Vib in brass band playing I think originates from the early days where most music available was classical transcriptions. The players of the day merely copied what the opera singers of the day were doing.

I don't think you can say who has the best sound.. each era has it's own sound, entirely dependant on the bore / quality (in terms of being able to control intonation) of the instruments available.

"best" sound / player etc will always be subjective.

Your response to vibrato is an interesting one David, reflecting a rather orchestral view of the subject.
If I play a solo, I play it as I would sing it, hence expression.
I stated that brass band instruments were designed to 'accommodate' vibrato, and yes, it is controlled by the player.
Decoration? Only to the point of window wipers decorating a windscreen.
Listen to the most recognised and celebrated brass band players, I doubt that you will hear straight sounds.
I am not quoting the academic history of classical brass instruments, just a decent knowledge of good brass band playing!
 

GJG

Well-Known Member
If I play a solo, I play it as I would sing it, hence expression.

But why the synonimity (is that a word?) between "expression" and "vibrato"? It should be perfectly possible to play expressively without vibrato if required. Not all singers use vibrato. Listen to some of the recordings by the Kings Singers, and more recently vocal chamber ensembles such as "Tenebrae", and tell me their performances are not expressive ...
 

marksmith

Active Member
But why the synonimity (is that a word?) between "expression" and "vibrato"? It should be perfectly possible to play expressively without vibrato if required. Not all singers use vibrato. Listen to some of the recordings by the Kings Singers, and more recently vocal chamber ensembles such as "Tenebrae", and tell me their performances are not expressive ...

Go on, admit it, you just don't like vibrato, do you?
I have played under one or two M.Ds who have had similar feelings about vib. They tended to walk around with a stick up their back-sides in genera l(instead of wagging it well) and needed to concentrate on more important 'deficiencies' in the overall performances of those particular bands
Take a more open view on life GJG, vib used well is an asset to playing.
 

GJG

Well-Known Member
Go on, admit it, you just don't like vibrato, do you?

Where did I say that? Read my earlier posts more carefully.

I have played under one or two M.Ds who have had similar feelings about vib. They tended to walk around with a stick up their back-sides in genera l(instead of wagging it well) and needed to concentrate on more important 'deficiencies' in the overall performances of those particular bands

I find your attitude, and what you are implying, to be offensive, bordering on downright rude, and unnecessary. You have no knowledge of how I treat the use of vibrato when rehearsing my own band, so why jump to conclusions?

Take a more open view on life GJG, vib used well is an asset to playing.

Where did I say it wasn't? Again read my posts more carefully. What I am opposed to is the incessant use of an uncontrolled vibrato, which used to be prevalent within the brass band movement.
 

simonium

Member
The sound of Desford on the first Edward Gregson CD conducted by the composer is fantastic - some truly heroic pedalling going on as well (the last note of Connotations is stunning).
 

baridis

Member
Another vote for mid-late '80's Desford, round the Dowty/Caterpillar days. Lovely sound, and a great combination of band and conductor.
 
Your response to vibrato is an interesting one David, reflecting a rather orchestral view of the subject.
If I play a solo, I play it as I would sing it, hence expression.
I stated that brass band instruments were designed to 'accommodate' vibrato, and yes, it is controlled by the player.
Decoration? Only to the point of window wipers decorating a windscreen.
Listen to the most recognised and celebrated brass band players, I doubt that you will hear straight sounds.
I am not quoting the academic history of classical brass instruments, just a decent knowledge of good brass band playing!

I agree with CJG here, vibrato is not synonymous with expression.

I believe expression to be communicating the emotion of the music, vibrato to be an oscillation in the pitch of a particular note. So in your book, expression equals vibrato , therefore if a piece is played with oscillations in pitch of every note; it is played with expression. hmmmmm I can't say I agree with that proposition with any of my musical hats on, orchestral, big band, show band or brass band.

As for your decoration analogy.. hmmmm...

Decent knowledge of good brass band playing... hmmmm

Listen to the most recognised and celebrated brass band players, I doubt that you will hear just vibrato.

Also, listen to the most recognised and celebrated musicians of all genres.... some even use vibrato too... where appropriate.
 

animal.22

Member
Ya all wrong!!!!!!! The best sound is that beautifull amber liquid that glugs in ever deepening tones as it pours out of a freshly opened whiskey bottle into your favourite glass that contains a couple of ice cubes!!!!!!!! :biggrin:
 

Bryan_sop

Active Member
- you're a trumpet player...come on change the record.

I've been a bander longer than I've been a trumpeter, less of the generalisations!

I agree with CJG here, vibrato is not synonymous with expression.

I believe expression to be communicating the emotion of the music, vibrato to be an oscillation in the pitch of a particular note. So in your book, expression equals vibrato , therefore if a piece is played with oscillations in pitch of every note; it is played with expression. hmmmmm I can't say I agree with that proposition with any of my musical hats on, orchestral, big band, show band or brass band.

As for your decoration analogy.. hmmmm...

Decent knowledge of good brass band playing... hmmmm

Listen to the most recognised and celebrated brass band players, I doubt that you will hear just vibrato.

Also, listen to the most recognised and celebrated musicians of all genres.... some even use vibrato too... where appropriate.

Very well said! Just take Miles Davis as an example. His teacher told him when he was a kid 'Stop shakin' like that, you'll do it enough when you get old' and, if you've ever listened to Miles's music, there's no way you can say it's not expressive!

Vibrato has it's place, when it's used tastefully and isn't as wide as an ocean liner! It's supposed to be there as an effect, not to cover lousy tuning!
 

FlugelD

Member
Vibrato has it's place, when it's used tastefully and isn't as wide as an ocean liner! It's supposed to be there as an effect, not to cover lousy tuning!

:tup

A place for everything, and everything in its place.... :)

A Harmon mute can be a nice effect, but would you want to listen to cornets/bones with Harmons superglued to the bell?
 
....... as for the best sound...

Britannia under Snell
YBS under King.....

Dyke when Jim Shepard was PC...

Dyke today... Grimethorpe today... can't choose...
 

Aidan

Active Member
The Norwegian bands have a weak sound and are more a brass ensemble (everything mf but in its place...well they try). They seemed scared to use any power and when they do it goes nasty rather than big.
Maybe the ones you were involved in.. ;)
 

tkhbss

Member
For me it has to be Fodens - a consistently warm and huge and sound with enormous attention to detail. :clap:
Dyke's far too hard on the ears for me, but Cory is another band with a big warm sound. :D
I love Grimey for entertainment value but, again, the sounds too hard for me. Each to their own..

Really? What a surprise? Oh, I remember your post a few weeks ago saying you were the one sold Cds for Fodens at the back of the hall whilst your partner plays with them. Good job you like their sound then eh ;)
 

marksmith

Active Member
I agree with CJG here, vibrato is not synonymous with expression.

I believe expression to be communicating the emotion of the music, vibrato to be an oscillation in the pitch of a particular note. So in your book, expression equals vibrato , therefore if a piece is played with oscillations in pitch of every note; it is played with expression. hmmmmm I can't say I agree with that proposition with any of my musical hats on, orchestral, big band, show band or brass band.

As for your decoration analogy.. hmmmm...

Decent knowledge of good brass band playing... hmmmm

Listen to the most recognised and celebrated brass band players, I doubt that you will hear just vibrato.



Also, listen to the most recognised and celebrated musicians of all genres.... some even use vibrato too... where appropriate.

One thing that I have observed about listening/reading skills, is that they depend on the ability to interpret information. Some people can, some can't.
Just vibrato? Where did I say that?
Decoration analogy? - does need imagination. Sorry, I presumed you had one.
Decent knowledge of good brass playing? I bet you slap when you fight? Pathetic!
 
One thing that I have observed about listening/reading skills, is that they depend on the ability to interpret information. Some people can, some can't.
Just vibrato? Where did I say that?
Decoration analogy? - does need imagination. Sorry, I presumed you had one.
Decent knowledge of good brass playing? I bet you slap when you fight? Pathetic!

No need to get personal and abusive just because someone doesn't agree with or challenges your opinion.
You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine. If you can only defend your opinion by getting personal and abusive.. well, that says it all.
I have no interest in continuing this discussion with you.
 

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