StellaJohnson
Active Member
Men are more logical??? I'm in no way a politically correct person, but your comment is sexist and utter rubbish and I think your should apologies immediately.
Women in Brass Bands
- Thread starter LadyBrassBand
- Start date
Men are more logical??? I'm in no way a politically correct person, but your comment is sexist and utter rubbish and I think your should apologies immediately.
BandFanatic
Member
I think it is time that this thread is shut down. The views being expressed are clearly stereotypical and designed to upset. It is not helping anyone at all.
WhatSharp?
Active Member
Putting aside the obvious inflammatory nature of the opening poster a more interesting question would be "What proportion of brass players are female and how is that represented within the brass band community?" as this is surely the more obvious question. Brass is not a popular choice for girls ( as I found looking at this interesting paper http://www98.griffith.edu.au/dspace...d=D69751B583D6FF07FD57DC58E69007D9?sequence=1 ) so we could well find that the proportion of female brass players within banding actually exceeds that of male counterparts ( if you follow my logic ).
Sure there may be one or two bands out that with some rather outdated views ( though I believe its more down to individuals these days than a band as a whole ), but you could equally point at any band and accuse them or racism for not having any Ethinic minorities in them. We know this not to be generally true but there being a huge amount of other factors involved ( such as cultural and religious ).
Sure there may be one or two bands out that with some rather outdated views ( though I believe its more down to individuals these days than a band as a whole ), but you could equally point at any band and accuse them or racism for not having any Ethinic minorities in them. We know this not to be generally true but there being a huge amount of other factors involved ( such as cultural and religious ).
stevetrom
Well-Known Member
I'll never apologize for an opinion, we don't need thought police.
I'll apologize for not wording my opinion clearly, I'll apologize if anyone is offended by what I wrote, but everyone is allowed an opinion.
You can not escape the fact that men and women are different in many ways, equally valued but not the same.
simonbassbone
Member
Could you apologise with an "s" not a "z"?
stevetrom
Well-Known Member
do you think americanisms could be contageous?
BandFanatic
Member
Dinosaurs spreading stereotypes is more dangerous. Why has this thread not been removed yet?
I asked for evidence, not further bigoted clap-trap.
stevetrom
Well-Known Member
and where is your evidence to say that men and women are identical in every way?
Mr N N Fixer
Member
Why, because you don't like some of the views expressed ? Or because you don't like Nev being "devalued" ? I don't like being referred to as a dinosaur because I play in a brass band and enjoy contesting.
Neither am I hiding, my name and background are on my profile. I'm also fair in my earlier post when I said not all females are ladies, and I would add that not all men are gentlemen either.
There ! I hope that makes you feel better.
Bye bye for now,
Rex Finn - aka Mr Fixer.
stevetrom
Well-Known Member
because it is an open discussion and free will is still allowed.
I'll try again to explain, men and women are different physically - surely we can all agree on that?
In my opinion, and in general, they also think differently and approach problems/decisions in a different way and are more/less suited to certain roles/jobs, etc.
So neither men nor women are better or worse, they should be equally valued but they are not the same, we should celebrate the differences.
and back, somewhere to the original question.
I've had a think about a couple of bands I play with and it is approx. 2/3 men 1/3 women.
Thinking, again, about youth bands, from what I have seen the numbers are far more equal in youth/junior bands. Maybe the question should be why do more girls/women stop playing after youth bands and not go on to play in senior bands?
BandFanatic
Member
No- because a number of posts have been put on here just to spread stereotypes such as comments made about women making sandwiches for the men and because more interested in homemaking than career success. It isn't acceptable that aspersions should be cast upon half the population and the comments are clearly upsetting people like Stella.
I thought in this day and age we might have got passed this.
I didn't say that, and in any case, it's your assertion that I asked for evidence about.
If I claimed that there is a teapot in orbit around the sun, somewhere between Jupiter and Saturn, you would be right to ask what evidence I had for it. If I then asked for evidence that no such teapot exists, what would you provide?
Maybe it's because of people who openly chunter on about men being 'logical' (with the obvious implication that women are not)? And because on hearing this kind of thing, many young women can't help but wonder, if this what these men are prepared to say in public, what on earth they must be thinking or saying in private?
MoominDave
Well-Known Member
There's a massive skewing effect from society's expectations of gender roles that makes deducing the existence of 'natural' differences between men and women all but impossible. Male and female children are subtly encouraged to conform in hundreds of little ways sprinkled throughout their childhoods - to give one particular example, whenever an adult compliments a little girl on being pretty (and this happens pretty regularly to most little girls), she's being taught to place a higher priority on her appearance, a lesson that is simply never given to boys. The net result of that one is the difference in appearance approach that we observe in our adult society - where any man who applies anywhere near the time, thought, or intent over his appearance that the average Western woman does come off as comedically foppish, while any woman who is as slapdash about their appearance as the average Western man is attracts pity and scorn. The double standard is very clear in this case.
I tend to think strongly that boys and girls start out pretty much the same, but that this kind of thing drives a wedge between them that would be better not there. People are people, much more than they are male or female. Some find comfort in acting out traditional gender roles to the letter; others find exactly the opposite. Much better not to place expectations of behaviour on people based on their gender.
I tend to think strongly that boys and girls start out pretty much the same, but that this kind of thing drives a wedge between them that would be better not there. People are people, much more than they are male or female. Some find comfort in acting out traditional gender roles to the letter; others find exactly the opposite. Much better not to place expectations of behaviour on people based on their gender.
BandFanatic
Member
Couldn't agree more.
stevetrom
Well-Known Member
but it's ok to call someone a dinosaur?
BandFanatic
Member
Yes let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
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Mr N N Fixer
Member
But surely these comments are being made with tongue firmly in cheek are they not ? Do you actually believe that some members of this forum really think that a woman's job is to make sandwiches and be a homemaker ? The OP may be genuine or it may be a wind up, but whatever it is, it has certainly brought out both the Andy Caps and the PC brigade.
Bye bye for now,
Mr Fixer.
Even if they are intended as tongue-in-cheek, they nonetheless contribute to an athmosphere which is less welcoming towards women. Pointing this out isn't 'PC gone mad'.
Also, I'm drawn to speculate as to why various contributers felt the need to make such 'tongue in cheek' comments? Working from a reasonable assumption that they didn't seriously think anyone would find them humourous, that is...
Mr N N Fixer
Member
You have just devalued your own argument by falling into the trap and agreeing that it's ok to call someone a dinosaur. I assume therefore that I can refer to you as an old woman and you will not be offended?
Bye bye for now,
Mr Fixer.