Women in Brass Bands

owain_s

Member
Jayne Murrill got a couple of mentions earlier on this thread. An excellent MD in my opinion, unhampered in any way by the lack of gentleman's parts. Lack of inches does exclude her from top band MDing however as she is just too short to conduct at this level, even when stood on a box. There was a most informative article in BBW magazine (editor P Harper, 8 feet tall) recently on this very topic.
How short does one have to be for this to really be a problem, and why is it only a barrier for the top bands?
 

stevetrom

Well-Known Member
?....
IN GENERAL, women multitask better than men, men focus better than women........GENERALLY, a woman will be better at earning a living while also wiping bottoms, making sandwiches......

So men tend to rise to the top - or quit. Sure, there are mediocre players who are men.
so when I say that, in GENERAL women x and men y, I'm a sexist dinosaur

discus....
 

2nd tenor

Well-Known Member
so when I say that, in GENERAL women x and men y, I'm a sexist dinosaur

discus....
It all depends what the 'X' and 'Y' are as to whether you are viewed as a sexist Dinosaur ... and, of course, some will state you are whatever you say, etc. This thread could so easily drift off from the OP causing upset along the way. IMHO we somehow need to actively encourage the ladies to post on this thread and to the level where the chaps mostly watch whilst the ladies sort out the way forward.

Seasons Greetings to all and best wishes for the New Year.
 
Indeed, Merry Christmas to all! And happy boxing day! So, just bringing us back to the original question:

"Can anyone suggest why this sexism continues to exist and what can be done to solve the problem?"

We've pontificated on the first part. What about the second? Do we agree there's a problem? Can something, should something, be done? In an ideal world, say you could make changes, what would you do?


 

2nd tenor

Well-Known Member
Indeed, Merry Christmas to all! And happy boxing day! So, just bringing us back to the original question:

"Can anyone suggest why this sexism continues to exist and what can be done to solve the problem?"

We've pontificated on the first part. What about the second? Do we agree there's a problem? Can something, should something, be done? In an ideal world, say you could make changes, what would you do?


For the sake of progress I’ll go along with the idea that there is a problem of unknown size. What could be done to change things?

I hate the idea of ‘positive’ discrimination but wonder whether some expectation could be placed on Contesting Bands? The expectation in mind would be for them to select, train and use a female deputy MD from within their band for some rehearsals and some concerts.

What could be done to change things might not be what women would like done - after too many painful conversations at home I eventually understand that, even with the best of intentions, it’s best to let the ladies decide what to do.

I don’t know how to get the ladies talking on this thread but I think the following accounts are in some use – hope it’s OK to list, the names were gathered from/via 2014 threads/posts. Would some female member (hazardous for a bloke?) be happy to PM then encouraging them to make the female voice heard by adding to this thread?

Accidental - Friary Guildford
Manxgirl
Di B
Suziebabe
Del80
Bonjour_Laura
flug_gal
karenh
second_horn
beccawheeze2 – Boobs and Brass
 
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Bbmad

Active Member
Hi folks

Well, this is an interesting one. Would it be possible for band to set up separate "ladies only bands" to encourage more ladies in? This would also mean that blokes who feel threatened by women would not need to worry.

Who knows? Wouldn't it be great if for example if say the Black Dyke Ladies Band were to beat their male counterparts at a contest?
 

2nd tenor

Well-Known Member
Hi folks

Well, this is an interesting one. Would it be possible for band to set up separate "ladies only bands" to encourage more ladies in? This would also mean that blokes who feel threatened by women would not need to worry.

Who knows? Wouldn't it be great if for example if say the Black Dyke Ladies Band were to beat their male counterparts at a contest?
It’s nice to ‘see’ you back and I look forward to more of your comments - no matter whether you agree with my points of view or not. IMHO the OP does need a slightly different answer and, for their reasons, Trinity does have a male MD now.

Interesting thought about ‘Black Dyke’ ladies. To widen opportunities and build a bigger and broader pool of talent would it be possible for the rules to be bent to allow the ladies to contest and dep. for both mixed bands (as per current rules) and additionally contest and dep. for other ladies only bands of similar section standard? To clarify the ladies would need to be allowed to be full members of two contesting bands, a mixed band and a ladies only band. To an extent that would ‘show case’ what the ladies can do when the best are helped to join together; there might be some funding issues but there is also a lot of good will ‘out there’ so that obstacle isn’t insurmountable.
 

Bbmad

Active Member
It’s nice to ‘see’ you back and I look forward to more of your comments - no matter whether you agree with my points of view or not. IMHO the OP does need a slightly different answer and, for their reasons, Trinity does have a male MD now.

Interesting thought about ‘Black Dyke’ ladies. To widen opportunities and build a bigger and broader pool of talent would it be possible for the rules to be bent to allow the ladies to contest and dep. for both mixed bands (as per current rules) and additionally contest and dep. for other ladies only bands of similar section standard? To clarify the ladies would need to be allowed to be full members of two contesting bands, a mixed band and a ladies only band. To an extent that would ‘show case’ what the ladies can do when the best are helped to join together; there might be some funding issues but there is also a lot of good will ‘out there’ so that obstacle isn’t insurmountable.
Contesting can be solved, simply, unlike quotas which would actually restrict the number of women bandsmen. A two team system would actually double the opportunity for both men and women to perform at the very top. At the moment, the top bands can put 25 players on stage, all mixed. Under a new system there would be an opportunity for 50 players.

As we have established that contesting is a sport, it would make sense to have two separate bands per organisation. A bit like how you have Arsenal and Arsenal ladies in pro football.
 

2nd tenor

Well-Known Member
Contesting can be solved, simply, unlike quotas which would actually restrict the number of women bandsmen. A two team system would actually double the opportunity for both men and women to perform at the very top. At the moment, the top bands can put 25 players on stage, all mixed. Under a new system there would be an opportunity for 50 players.

As we have established that contesting is a sport, it would make sense to have two separate bands per organisation. A bit like how you have Arsenal and Arsenal ladies in pro football.
Interesting 'take' but in physical sports women, IMHO, do not typically have the brute stength required to challenge men equally and so gender specific teams work much better. In music that seperation of the genders (into gender specific leagues or sections) is un-needed: many women play better than many men (hence some women in Black Dyke) and strength is a minor factor.

There are women out there who could conduct at the highest level. Bones Appart (http://www.bonesapart.com/) are fantastic players who might well conduct as and when needed and the likes of Sue Addison (http://www.rncm.ac.uk/people/sue-addison/) and Rachel Cowgill (http://www.hud.ac.uk/ourstaff/profile/index.php?staffuid=smusrc2) show that the ladies can fill 'top jobs' in music.
 
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Bbmad

Active Member
Interesting 'take' but in physical sports women, IMHO, do not typically have the brute stength required to challenge men equally and so gender specific teams work much better. In music that seperation of the genders (into gender specific leagues or sections) is un-needed: many women play better than many men (hence some women in Black Dyke) and strength is a minor factor.

There are women out there who could conduct at the highest level. Bones Appart (http://www.bonesapart.com/) are fantastic players who might well conduct as and when needed and the likes of Sue Addison (http://www.rncm.ac.uk/people/sue-addison/) and Rachel Cowgill (http://www.hud.ac.uk/ourstaff/profile/index.php?staffuid=smusrc2) show that the ladies can fill 'top jobs' in music.
I wouldn't suggest separate leagues just separate teams so to speak. That way the best male bandsmen would compete against the best female bandsmen. The benefit would be that they could prepare for and travel to events separately, solving the issues that some men consider to be present in mixed gender bands.
 

katieeuph

Member
To an extent that would ‘show case’ what the ladies can do when the best are helped to join together; there might be some funding issues but there is also a lot of good will ‘out there’ so that obstacle isn’t insurmountable.
It's taken 15 pages for me to say the word 'patronising', but there, I've said it now.
 

2nd tenor

Well-Known Member
It's taken 15 pages for me to say the word 'patronising', but there, I've said it now.
I'm sorry if I come across badly to you. My intent was positive but you win some and you lose some.

Anyway, I'm glad you posted 'cause this thread is devalued without much greater input from able women such as yourself. Your 'name' did came to my mind earlier today and I would have gladly included it in my list had my superficial search produced it .... or had I remembered the simple enough spelling correctly.
 
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