WOBplay

Heinz Schmidt

New Member
What a great idea and what a distaster for our ecology. I am sure all members in this forum knows which enormous problems all of us will have in the near future, and I don't talk about COVID 19, which is a seperate problem. No, I talk abouth the climate changes, the dying of the forest and many other ecological problems. Platforms like Spotify; Deezer or other are in a very strong critical focus, and many people ask for other solutions (at least people who are worried about the future of our world). And nowIII "WOBPLay", a platform that nobody really needs. Thanks for that. Any of the responsible persons should be sit at their desks, and take a little time to calculate the influence of such a streaming platform. Start with a moderate figure per month, and you will be shocked which negative influence such a platform have on our ecological systems. Nobody should answer too fast "Oh, no problem we take all of this into our consideration and plannings". Read studies from professionals and scientists, and many of you will see, what they have missed in their perfect calculations.
The greatest shock that I had was the knowledge, that behind this project stand the name of The Salvation Army. What would the founder of the Salvation Army say? OK my friends, wonderful what you do with our world? I am sure the answer would be another, and not so friendly.
Nevertheless, the platform will start, and so my only message is; please at first "think about our world and what you are doing", and than register if you think that this is the right decision, and the right way. And additional a short comment for my friends at the Salvation Army. Remember the message of the founder William Booth, and than ask yourselve if you on the right way. I am not perfect, but I try to do my best to save our world, and I know that I make many mistakes, also, but we all can learn. Believe.
 

John Brooks

Well-Known Member
I'm not a user of Deezer, Spotify or any of the other streaming services and I don't anticipate using WOBPlay either. I understand that there are some ecological concerns surrounding streaming but I honestly don't understand what they are. However, for my comments that's not important because I have another reason. For well over fifty years I've been a serious collector of music for brass. I bought hundreds of LP's and eventually transitioned to CD's (many CD's replacing the previously acquired LP's) so I have no interest in paying to listen to what I have in the library that I have heavily invested in. Yes, I understand that there will be additional music, not previously available and my guess is that many new releases may only be available via WOBPlay (I hope not but that's my guess). If in making this decision I'm also doing a little to help the ecology, that's a bonus.
 

Heinz Schmidt

New Member
To make a little clearer here a comment from the CEO of EON Electric in Germany, one of the greatest player in this market:

Due to the growing spread of streaming platforms, around 200 billion kilowatt hours of electricity are now consumed worldwide. This amount is likely to increase further in the coming years. The servers in the data centers, on which the content of Netflix, Amazon & Co. is stored, ensure a high level of energy consumption.

In order to cover the global electricity demand through streaming, "all German wind, solar, hydropower and biomass plants that generated a similar amount of electricity in 2018 would be required," explained Victoria Ossadnik, CEO of Eon Energie Deutschland. If the energy were not used for streaming, it could supply all private households in Germany, Italy and Poland together for a year.

And now World of Brass play also in this concert. Fantastic from my point of view.
 

2nd tenor

Well-Known Member
To my mind the OP assumes too much awareness of WOB play and streaming platforms. Personally I don’t stream any programmes or music over the Internet and don’t believe in that rental method preferring instead to purchase outright or not at all. As for power consumption and the global warming effect the answer to that is easy enough, by whatever means is necessary require those operating the servers to generate their own green powered electricity. All of a sudden you’ll see more efficient servers being used and people taking greater responsibility for their actions.

I am surprised that streaming is seem by someone as a big issue, to my mind there are so many bigger users of fossil fuel to go after first and indeed polluting countries such as India and China to influence.
 

julian

Active Member
What a great idea and what a distaster for our ecology. I am sure all members in this forum knows which enormous problems all of us will have in the near future, and I don't talk about COVID 19, which is a seperate problem. No, I talk abouth the climate changes, the dying of the forest and many other ecological problems. Platforms like Spotify; Deezer or other are in a very strong critical focus, and many people ask for other solutions (at least people who are worried about the future of our world). And nowIII "WOBPLay", a platform that nobody really needs. Thanks for that. Any of the responsible persons should be sit at their desks, and take a little time to calculate the influence of such a streaming platform. Start with a moderate figure per month, and you will be shocked which negative influence such a platform have on our ecological systems. Nobody should answer too fast "Oh, no problem we take all of this into our consideration and plannings". Read studies from professionals and scientists, and many of you will see, what they have missed in their perfect calculations.
The greatest shock that I had was the knowledge, that behind this project stand the name of The Salvation Army. What would the founder of the Salvation Army say? OK my friends, wonderful what you do with our world? I am sure the answer would be another, and not so friendly.
Nevertheless, the platform will start, and so my only message is; please at first "think about our world and what you are doing", and than register if you think that this is the right decision, and the right way. And additional a short comment for my friends at the Salvation Army. Remember the message of the founder William Booth, and than ask yourselve if you on the right way. I am not perfect, but I try to do my best to save our world, and I know that I make many mistakes, also, but we all can learn. Believe.
Try and help me understand a little. Does streaming music use more energy than using a computer for this forum or viewing on Youtube or manufacturing buying and playing C/D's? I'm not arguing just trying to understand the implications for each
 

Heinz Schmidt

New Member
Try and help me understand a little. Does streaming music use more energy than using a computer for this forum or viewing on Youtube or manufacturing buying and playing C/D's? I'm not arguing just trying to understand the implications for each
This is such a complex issue, that it is impossible to present it in this forum, and by the way, it is also not the right place for such discussions. You will find a lot of informations in the web about this topic. But let me explain it in some simple words. Each visit on the Internet, no matter if you use Youtube; streaming portals or any other Networks, will leave ecological (digital) footprints. Please note, here we talk only about Network usage, we don't talk about home computer and the offline usage of these devices. so find below a short comment of another great energy provider from Germany: (translation was made automatically from the german language)

Data centers are CO2 heavyweights
Billions of data centers around the world run 7/24 to send, exchange and save gigantic amounts of data. This requires an immense amount of electricity. In addition, the servers have to be cooled so as not to overheat. Estimates assume that the data centers in Germany alone consume 14 billion kilowatt hours annually. This equates to almost 400 kilowatt hours of electrical energy or 213 kilograms of CO2 emissions per year per Internet connection. Compared to 2010 an increase of 40 percent - and the trend is rising. We are already working on environmentally friendly solutions, for example using the heat output of the data centers effectively. In some cities, this energy is already being used to heat residential areas.
In fact, our online activities have an ecological footprint similar to that of global air traffic.
!!! Horrible, unfortunately I am also a part of this, but I try to reduce it (comment by the author of this thread) !!!

Streaming provider must use such data centers, and each new provider will produce new ecological footprints. So it is not a questions if the streaming service use more energy as any other service. Fact is, that every new platform use additional energy, and thereby more CO2. The great advantage of platforms from the great players in this market like Youtube or some others is, that they works already (at least partially) with ecological friendly solutions like solar energy to run their servers. But currently this is only a very small group. I don't think that WOBPlay use such server, because the limited numbers of albums and the small group of users allow to use this new effective server technology.
I hope this short explanation will help to understand things a little easier. As already mentioned, you will find a lot of informations in the Internet (oh sorry again many ecological footprints).
 

julian

Active Member
Well there we go then. If it's such a complex issue and it's not the right place for such discussions why start it in the first place? Just saying.......
 

2nd tenor

Well-Known Member
Well there we go then. If it's such a complex issue and it's not the right place for such discussions why start it in the first place? Just saying.......
That echoes my own thoughts but on the other hand the OP makes members aware of an issue and perhaps that awareness was he objective rather than discussion. Whatever, it adds interest and traffic to the forum so that’s a plus. I wonder what the relative resource and power consumption is for streaming versus the manufacture and distribution of hard copies. I wouldn’t be surprised if streaming worked out to be the more environmentally friendly of the two, I’ve many CD’s and records that sit unused but they will have taken much energy to manufacture and distribute.
 

Heinz Schmidt

New Member
This thread has only one message: Think first ---- then act, but I see it is in vain. Humanity will not learn. In face of the Covid 19 pandemic I see the problems in Belgium, Germany (where I live) and certainly in other countries as well. People ingnore all warnings and life their own live. OK, this is not the problem about that we talk in this thread, but it shows in which way people are thinking and runing.
Without any question, the production of CD's and other Media is an ecological heavyweight also, but sorry my friends, what we are talking about here, because these media are already on the market and many copies are still available. So here we have no way back, and so we don't must talk about it. But with streaming we talk about another ecological heavyweigt. So what? Is it necessary that we discuss about old problems, and ignore to solve the new ecological problems? I think that this is for sure the wrong way, because than we can start to discuss all problems from the early days of the last century. Not a good idea, isn't it?
Boring but unfortunately true: This old sentence, which is quoted again and again, applies
Only after the last tree has been cut down / Only after the last river has been poisoned / Only after the last fish has been caught / Then will you find that money cannot be eaten.
So my friends, do whatever you want to do, be sure it will be right. I know for myself that I don't need such nonsense services, and I hope that I can help the world with my minor steps. I don't believe; but I will try. This is my personal opinion. Nevertheless, for me it is always important that people say something, if they don't say anything; nothing will change, and that would be real disaster.
 
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2nd tenor

Well-Known Member
All good points I think. If you have more on what is basically environmental subject matter then why not raise some addition new threads, there is a special part of this forum for ‘off topic’ matters (things that aren’t strictly Brass playing).
I don’t think that we can put all of the World ‘to rights’ but every small action helps in some way to make a better future fir ourselves, our friends, our children and (if you’re old like me) our grand children.

Very many people, indeed a much bigger percentage of the population than one might think, already understand that we need to be looking after the planet. We all have everyday life to manage but many people still understand the message and act on it in the way they live at home and sometimes in the job that they do too. Only after the last tree has been cut down / Only after the last river has been poisoned / Only after the last fish has been caught / Then will you find that money cannot be eaten.
 
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Heinz Schmidt

New Member
If you have more on what is basically environmental subject matter then why not raise some addition new threads, there is a special part of this forum for ‘off topic’ matters (things that aren’t strictly Brass playing).
I don’t think that we can put all of the World ‘to rights’ but every small action helps in some way to make a better future fir ourselves, our friends, our children and (if you’re old like me) our grand children.
Basically I am interested in good Brass Band Music, and I love the good old Brass Band recordings from the past. It's not my intention to write in a Brass Band Forum about ecological problems. The reason for this thread was the annoucement on 4barsrest about the new streaming service from World of Brass. I could not understand that this must be happened in such a problematic time, and if there is a really need for this. My generation (I am 68) make enough faults, and lived like there was no tomorrow. My hope is that the young generation will use a better direction, and will not make the same mistakes as the older people.
I played for many years on Solo Cornet in a Salvation Army Band in Cologne (Germany), and love Brass Band Music. I have a library of over 2.000 albums from UK Brass Bands and Salvation Army recordings. Many of these albums on LP, and the newer one on CD, and let be honest, in the time as I restored the old LP's, I noticed that I don't had listen to some LP's or CD's for a long time. So for what a streaming service?
I have all the old LP's digitally restored, and saved on my private server. So, I tried to use ecological friendly storage formats (not a storage in clouds or so).
As you can see, my english is not always the best, and so I think it does not make any sense to write great articles in english, especially articles about ecological issues. I have written many of such articles in German forums, and documented new ways to listen to music.
As I already mentioned, I hope that some people will read my thread and will start to think first before they register on such a streaming platform. That's all. Thanks
 

2nd tenor

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the context.

Please don’t be overly concerned about the quality of your English, it seems good enough to me.

Welcome to the forum. Several active members are current or ex-Salvation Army players so you’ll fit in fine. Some members have lived in Continental Europe too.

IMHO this place needs to hear your voice on Brass Bands and other topical issues too - new voices here are almost always good - so please do feel welcome to join in with and add to what happens on tmp.
 

John Brooks

Well-Known Member
Complicated for sure and also, because we can't see it, maybe difficult to assimilate (it is for me). Ecologically speaking, I made the decision a few years ago to stop buying water in plastic bottles, which I can clearly see disposed of everywhere. That was easier for me and, interestingly, when I told my grand children they were all really happy and immediately related. Imagine being told by an eight year old "That's a good decision grandad, that's really important!!". Brought tears to my eyes. This is a great topic and worth our time and consideration.
 
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