What's your band doing about Child Performance Licencing

Fedman

Member
BBE have posted an excellent explanation about CPL but what is your band doing about it, particularly before the Areas?
 

Euphonium Lite

Active Member
Weve got 1 U16 and we are already starting to complete the form to go to Norfolk County Council - although we are also asking whether we need to apply or not (the guidance is not completely clear)

It should be noted that this isnt anything new. Its purely that BBE have suddenly realised its there and have highlighted it
 

Fedman

Member
Yes, the original law concerning child labour laws was written in 1963 and the current legislation updated in 2014. Unfortunately the Arts didn't lobby strongly enough against this badly written legislation but the Sports lobby got it right by inserting it only applies to young people who are paid to perform their sport. Sadly we are stuck with a law that had been ignored largely until last year. It was highlighted at last year's Brass in Concert, youth, and at the BBE National Youth Championships. The NW area seems to be on top of it so lets hope the other Areas get up to speed. It is very unlikely that Councils have the necessary funding to deal with the applications let alone police the law. What is so annoying is the rules could break bands. Government also hasn't the time to change it any time soon (because of Brexit). It is a shambles and ordinary law abiding banding folk have to follow or the threat of fines or imprisonment hang over them. Of course it applies to all Arts organisations - choirs, dramatic groups etc. But not to sport!! BBE's written advisory article is at least more timely than the Areas'own reactions and preparations to this law as it affects their events.
 

Fedman

Member
I completely agree and hope that changes will be made to this ridiculous law which serves no purpose whatsoever. For now though all we can say is the Law is an Ass.
 

Tom-King

Well-Known Member
So now we have reached the point where you have to have a licence for a child to participate in a hobby. How stupid!:mad:
Quite... We can only hope that bands (and indeed parents!) don't wind up denying children the opportunity to participate.

Can't for the life of me see why this is necessary in amateur music.
 

Euphonium Lite

Active Member
Quite... We can only hope that bands (and indeed parents!) don't wind up denying children the opportunity to participate.

Can't for the life of me see why this is necessary in amateur music.
I agree totally Tom, but I would put the blame primarily on Brass Bands England, who should (IMO) be looking out for this sort of legislation, challenging it, and asking for exemptions for Brass Bands. Except they didn't..... they may or may not have known about the legislation before (quite possible that they didnt) but even that is a failure. What is the point in having an organisation that is for the benefit of Brass Bands, if it doesnt do something for the benefit of bands. Its not as if no-one anywhere knew - Sports clearly did, which is why they have exemptions
 

Euphonium Lite

Active Member
I would also suggest that the legislation was amended/clarified in 2015 not to punish bands and music groups, as well as AmDram companies, but to protect children from over-zealous parents trying to make a living from children doing TV, professional shows and modelling. Whether it was a sledgehammer to crack a nut is open to question, but the fact is that trying to cover all possible angles meant that the legislation also covers angles that didn't need covering.
Bands often earn money from their performances (either door takings, or a fee) and therefore come into scope of the legislation, but the fact that banding rarely - if ever - clashes with education means that it should have been exempted. I guess if you have a teenager playing with Cory and doing 70 - 80 concerts a year that may need licensing to ensure the child is getting a good education, but how often is that likely to happen?
 

2nd tenor

Well-Known Member
So now we have reached the point where you have to have a licence for a child to participate in a hobby. How stupid!:mad:
That’s seemingly so and, as is well known, the Law is (or rather sometimes is) an Ass. The logical thing to do is to notionally ignore it when you can and get the paperwork when it’s a frequent event. Be sensible by being mindful of their school work and in not putting youngsters under pressure to perform, and plead ignorance if challenged by someone in authority - and then offer to address their concerns. To abide by the spirit of the Law if not the actual (and probability unintended) detail. The Courts, the CPS and the Police surely have ‘bigger fish to fry’ rather than chasing trivia like this. Similarly Local Authorities (Councils) have better things to be looking at too.

I agree totally Tom, but I would put the blame primarily on Brass Bands England, who should (IMO) be looking out for this sort of legislation, challenging it, and asking for exemptions for Brass Bands. Except they didn't..... they may or may not have known about the legislation before (quite possible that they didnt) but even that is a failure. What is the point in having an organisation that is for the benefit of Brass Bands, if it doesnt do something for the benefit of bands. Its not as if no-one anywhere knew - Sports clearly did, which is why they have exemptions
To me that seems a bit too harsh on Brass Bands England. As far as I know they are a relatively small organisation and to expect them to have their finger on every pulse seems to ask of them more than they can achieve. Sports organisations are many in number and each typically has a large membership, to an extent they also co-operate with each other too. In comparison to that mass of membership Brass Bands are but relative Minnows.
 
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Fedman

Member
I would point Euphonium Lite back to my second post above - it is the Arts Council and Sports Council and Children's Welfare Charities which would be the main lobbyists in respect of this legislation. However, as the law was passed, BBE flagged this up over the last 12 months or more, as the law, as it stands, does affect what bands do. (unfairly or otherwise). The NW Area had things in place but the other regions didn't, so BBE has helped many bands and young players who may have otherwise found themselves in a mess at this round of regional contests. That is called helping bands. When it comes to blame, then save your blame for "the man who doesn't tell you, that you are about to walk over a cliff in the dark."
 

Euphonium Lite

Active Member
I would point Euphonium Lite back to my second post above - it is the Arts Council and Sports Council and Children's Welfare Charities which would be the main lobbyists in respect of this legislation. However, as the law was passed, BBE flagged this up over the last 12 months or more, as the law, as it stands, does affect what bands do. (unfairly or otherwise). The NW Area had things in place but the other regions didn't, so BBE has helped many bands and young players who may have otherwise found themselves in a mess at this round of regional contests. That is called helping bands. When it comes to blame, then save your blame for "the man who doesn't tell you, that you are about to walk over a cliff in the dark."
If I've been unfairly harsh on BBE then I apologise. I appreciate theyre not a large organisation, but I still maintain that there should have been more awareness of this. I guess if there have been failings within BBE then they may well be in the past - lack of liaison with the Arts Council etc - rather than current and in fairness to BBE they have pointed out the issue - it would have been a bigger failing to leave bands to take their chances

Perhaps once the areas are done, Kapitol may take a more vested interest (Finals) and work with BBE to get to a solution. We can but hope
 
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