Having competed at this years brass in concert and as a band having put so much effort and rehearsal into what we the band thought was entertaining to be placed second last without a crit or any explanation is very frustrating! What does a band have to do to be classed as entertaining? We had dress ups we has lots of stand ups and we played what i thought was a very funny horn duet! The music adjudicators had us 4th which came with a very decent crit which lets us know exactly where we have to improve. However having done the hard playing bit to be shaffted into 8th with no exlanation is a little hard to take! This is not sour grapes just frustrating. Congratulations to all the prize winners maybe you could help us with our entertaining side!!!? :?
What is entertaining?
- Thread starter PC
- Start date
Quite right Bartje
Nothing wrong with a bad result if you are told why. The very least the entertainment adjudicator could have done is to stand up at the end and tell people what he had been looking for. Maybe the organisers did not allow him to do so - if so why? In future years, there should be published remarks from the adjudicator and some kind of explanation of what he or she had been looking for. Bands spend a lot of money on these contests not just travelling but commissioning new music. The least they can expect is some transparency. Having said that I thought that Grimethorpe and Sellers (heard through the side door as we waited to go on) were excellent. Worthy prize winners.
Nothing wrong with a bad result if you are told why. The very least the entertainment adjudicator could have done is to stand up at the end and tell people what he had been looking for. Maybe the organisers did not allow him to do so - if so why? In future years, there should be published remarks from the adjudicator and some kind of explanation of what he or she had been looking for. Bands spend a lot of money on these contests not just travelling but commissioning new music. The least they can expect is some transparency. Having said that I thought that Grimethorpe and Sellers (heard through the side door as we waited to go on) were excellent. Worthy prize winners.
Kerwintootle
Member
Sorry about the result guys, we had to go to Huddersfield to pick up the kids so didn't get the chance to listen to anybody.
It's not even as though you can guage what the judges are looking for as next year there will be a new set of judges who may be looking for something entirely different.
Take care guys and I'll see you on saturday.
It's not even as though you can guage what the judges are looking for as next year there will be a new set of judges who may be looking for something entirely different.
Take care guys and I'll see you on saturday.
lynchie
Active Member
I hope this wont offend anyone, but I think you have to realise the distinction between funny and entertaining. Something that's entertaining is usually something new or original to the audience, or different to the typical "brass band thing"... not necessarily dressing like a rabbit...
The Cornet King
Active Member
Indeed. I was once told by a teacher of mine that in an entertainment programme they played a trombone solo.
Anyway the 'entertainment' was the trombonist dropping his trousers halfway through the piece (it could only have been a trombone player :wink:
)
This went down like a sack of spuds! Complete silence, total embarrasment for all concerned :lol:
The distinction between entertaining and silly is a fine line.
Anyway the 'entertainment' was the trombonist dropping his trousers halfway through the piece (it could only have been a trombone player :wink:
)This went down like a sack of spuds! Complete silence, total embarrasment for all concerned :lol:
The distinction between entertaining and silly is a fine line.
You appear to have missed the point here (incidentally, nobody dressed like a rabbit or any other woodland creature nor did anybody drop their trousers as far as I am aware (at least not on stage)).
My point is that bad result is fine as long as you are told why you were marked down. It's not much to ask for an adjudicator to provide some remarks to explain his or her decision. In fact it's just common sense to explain your reasoning. I am happy with any adjudicator's decision as long as I know how it was arrived at.
Alex is right when she says that next year there will be a different judge with different views. Hopefully he or she will be prepared to tell us what they are either verbally in writing.
My point is that bad result is fine as long as you are told why you were marked down. It's not much to ask for an adjudicator to provide some remarks to explain his or her decision. In fact it's just common sense to explain your reasoning. I am happy with any adjudicator's decision as long as I know how it was arrived at.
Alex is right when she says that next year there will be a different judge with different views. Hopefully he or she will be prepared to tell us what they are either verbally in writing.
Bob Thompson
Member
Actually, the percussion section and the conductor of the JAG band, all droped their trousers yesterday and they did quite well.
Im not suggsting it was the trouser drop by the way, they played an excelent programme, played it well and were very entertaining.
But I agree, adjudicators should give some idea re, what they consider 'entertaining'. Having said that, its obvious that some bands will be more entertaining than others, perhaps its somewhat objective if only 2 judges.
Im not suggsting it was the trouser drop by the way, they played an excelent programme, played it well and were very entertaining.
But I agree, adjudicators should give some idea re, what they consider 'entertaining'. Having said that, its obvious that some bands will be more entertaining than others, perhaps its somewhat objective if only 2 judges.
Bartje, I agree with all you say that it does seem a bit of a ****** when a band puts a lot of time and thought in to come up with what is believed to be an "entertaining" programme containing all the right ingredients, yet the entertainment adjudicators for whatever reason disagree.
I agree that some explanation should be provided by the entertainment adjudicators as to a) what they're looking for in order to determine entertainment value and b) how they came to their decisions with regard to the points allocated to each band.
Although not featuring in the frame I think the results based on the music element alone reaffirms the stature of the current Kirki band as one of the top bands in the country. Just a pity the points were not there for the "entertainment" element.
Best of luck at the Scottish Open in a couple of weeks.
I agree that some explanation should be provided by the entertainment adjudicators as to a) what they're looking for in order to determine entertainment value and b) how they came to their decisions with regard to the points allocated to each band.
Although not featuring in the frame I think the results based on the music element alone reaffirms the stature of the current Kirki band as one of the top bands in the country. Just a pity the points were not there for the "entertainment" element.
Best of luck at the Scottish Open in a couple of weeks.
no point in moaning about the entertainment result - that's what we got and that's what we'll accept.
From a personal point of view I think Kirkie has improved the entertainment element of our Spennymoor programmes over the last three years (without resorting to anything embarassing i.e. no furry animal suits, or attempts at slapstick) - but obviously it didn't do it for the judges this year. We spent a lot of time (and money) comissioning new arrangements (every piece brand new) and that (and our playing) was rewarded I think.
So, well done to the prize winners, and on to the next!
Les Wood
Kirkintilloch Band
From a personal point of view I think Kirkie has improved the entertainment element of our Spennymoor programmes over the last three years (without resorting to anything embarassing i.e. no furry animal suits, or attempts at slapstick) - but obviously it didn't do it for the judges this year. We spent a lot of time (and money) comissioning new arrangements (every piece brand new) and that (and our playing) was rewarded I think.
So, well done to the prize winners, and on to the next!
Les Wood
Kirkintilloch Band
Ewen McKay
New Member
I think the audience should decide who the most entertaining band is. Is that a silly idea?
Kettle
Whitburn Band
p.s. Well done to Kirkie and the the Scottish Co-op anyway!
Kettle
Whitburn Band
p.s. Well done to Kirkie and the the Scottish Co-op anyway!
I think the audience deciding would be a disaster. All of a sudden it becomes a competition of who has the most followers in the crowd, also it would mean every person hearing every band, otherwise the band that 50% of the crowd had 1st by 10 points wont even get a placing if the other 50% missed their performance and gave them no vote.
craigyboy1
Member
I think Bo' Selecta is the funniest thing around just now but some of my friends can't stand it. :?:
Entertainment is purely subjective and is an unfortunate way to loose marks at a contest.
If you were given remarks on the entertainment side and then altered your style accordingly for next year only to find someone else adjudicating you would be back to square one.
In an ideal world I try to think like this: If I am happy with the way the band played and I played and the M.D. is happy that the band has done what was asked then it's a good day at the office. If the adjudicator likes it then great but if he doesn't then it's just their opinion and you can be just as happy with your performance as you were before the results.
I know this sounds a bit level headed and square.....but I do try to look on the positive side.......sometimes........it can be *#*#@* hard though :shock:
Entertainment is purely subjective and is an unfortunate way to loose marks at a contest.
If you were given remarks on the entertainment side and then altered your style accordingly for next year only to find someone else adjudicating you would be back to square one.
In an ideal world I try to think like this: If I am happy with the way the band played and I played and the M.D. is happy that the band has done what was asked then it's a good day at the office. If the adjudicator likes it then great but if he doesn't then it's just their opinion and you can be just as happy with your performance as you were before the results.
I know this sounds a bit level headed and square.....but I do try to look on the positive side.......sometimes........it can be *#*#@* hard though :shock:
Kerwintootle
Member
I completely sympathise Kirky guys. (I'm a poet and I don't know it).
How was the audience reaction to your programme? Have you heard any comments from other people?
Audience were quite enthusiastic after our performance, so I was a bit surprsed with the result when I was told.
How was the audience reaction to your programme? Have you heard any comments from other people?
Audience were quite enthusiastic after our performance, so I was a bit surprsed with the result when I was told.
BreadOfHeaven
Member
Agree 100% with Craigyboy. These things are way too subjective. You can only give what you think is an entertaining performance and if the box agrees then great. If not then too bad.
Well done to kirkie and the co anyway. See you at the RCH.
Well done to kirkie and the co anyway. See you at the RCH.
Ginge
Member
Bob Thompson said:
Actually, we were placed 7th for entertainment!!!
I don't think you can win really. Every adjudicator will view entertainment differently. Although i have to say that some of the entertainment scores at 'Brass in concert' were quite different from the way i viewed them. I do agree with Ever Ready's score though. They did make me chuckle :lol:
At the end of the day it's all down to individual interpretation. No two adjudicators will agree throughout.
I do sympathise though, it can be frustrating when you think you've pulled of a good entertaining programme and get nothing for it!
Think the distinction needs to be made as to whether adjudicators are looking for entertainment, or out and out comedy, or a bit of both. I've had entertainment prize wins with my bands when we've sone nothing but play the music, and also wins when we've gone out and out for comedy. If the adjudicators had been reversed in these contests we might have won nothing. Every time in these situations though we've won our section prize as well. Playing the music well is obviously important but at contests like spennymoor where the two are seperate in terms of points, the organisers are going to have to give some guidlines. Entertainment from the playing and comedy from the rest of the presentation? I've gone on a bit but you get my drift I hope.
Ginge
Member
I have just read the article in 'British Bandsman' about Spennymoor.
The article says a lot about our bands (JAG Mount Charles) percussion feature 'Scherzo Without Intruments' (W. Schinstin).
The article says...
"...Last weekend it wasn't a case of dressing up, rather more a case of dressing down. Four chaps including conductor Russell Gray, dropped their pants centre stage, sat down and 'performed' what was described as Scherzo Without Instruments. When I received the music programmes three days before the contest, I wondered what was in store. Put it this way, the chaps had to drop their pants in order to 'perform' their thigh-slapping routine and it has to be acknowledged that maybe most of the capacity audience appeared to enjoy the item. But does it count as entertainment in such a Championship?..."
(British Bandsman)
I cannot see how this would not count as entertainment! Surely if the audience were laughin and showed their enjoyment towards the item, then this is entertaining???!
The article says a lot about our bands (JAG Mount Charles) percussion feature 'Scherzo Without Intruments' (W. Schinstin).
The article says...
"...Last weekend it wasn't a case of dressing up, rather more a case of dressing down. Four chaps including conductor Russell Gray, dropped their pants centre stage, sat down and 'performed' what was described as Scherzo Without Instruments. When I received the music programmes three days before the contest, I wondered what was in store. Put it this way, the chaps had to drop their pants in order to 'perform' their thigh-slapping routine and it has to be acknowledged that maybe most of the capacity audience appeared to enjoy the item. But does it count as entertainment in such a Championship?..."
(British Bandsman)
I cannot see how this would not count as entertainment! Surely if the audience were laughin and showed their enjoyment towards the item, then this is entertaining???!