UKBBA Third Summit meeting postponed

[Laserbeam bass]

I misrepresented the UKBBA in the title, it is postponed, not cancelled
mod edit: thread title corrected


Courtesy of 4br

Just caught this on 4br.

Is anyone suprised by this?

 

[WoodenFlugel]

Hmm I have to say not. I was intending to go to see what they were saying. It might sound harsh, but the reason for the postponement isn't good enough - if you have to re-think due to feedback, put the extra hours in to get it done for the date. Postponing shows a lack of real commitment IMHO.

 

[rosolino]

Not surprised at all. Too many wee men (and women) in cloth caps not wanting to give up their little kingdoms.

 

[eflatbass]

I agree with WoodenFlugel. They have had ample time in which to sort out the details. Perhaps if they had taken notice of the many comments posted in various threads on this forum over the past few months, the UKBBA (if such an organisation will ever exist!) would have been better informed as to the expressed needs of the rank and file band members.

 

[Anno Draconis]

Not surprised at all. Too many wee men (and women) in cloth caps not wanting to give up their little kingdoms.

That's about the size of it, I reckon. Too much like herding cats...

 

[Laserbeam bass]

I agree with WoodenFlugel. They have had ample time in which to sort out the details. Perhaps if they had taken notice of the many comments posted in various threads on this forum over the past few months, the UKBBA (if such an organisation will ever exist!) would have been better informed as to the expressed needs of the rank and file band members.

But, this one again leads to the question, why are the suggestion and ideas being added here, and not being added via the link that was provided for that purpose.

We as a movement are by far the most superior at organising by committee, and achieving absolutely nothing. This is a case in point.

Either, people need to take control of their destiny / legacy, or let someone else do it and end up with a movement, that will be creaking at the joints and marching at slower than Vets pace.

Some may well ask if I have done anything about this, and the answer is no, but that is because I choose not to. Where I have wanted to voice an opinioncomplaint, I have taken the bull by the horns, and got on with it. There is too much talk and not enough action. This little thread will peter out due to apathy, and that is the main problem with brass bands at the moment. We all know what we want, but are either too lazy, or too scared to confront the issues at hand.

 

[IanHeard]

No real surprise with this news, This is a well meaning, but ill-thought out UK wide 'solution' to a problem that only affects English banding.
If this initiative is doomed to failure, I for one will not be surprised.

 

[WoodenFlugel]

But, this one again leads to the question, why are the suggestion and ideas being added here, and not being added via the link that was provided for that purpose.

Because this is the perfect medium to do it? I've said this before but the whole idea of getting people to email their suggestions was flawed, especially when there are already better ways in place. The blinkered, ******-minded attitude that opinions here are somehow less valid than an email (before you jump on me I've heard that said by more than one person with influence within the movement), is one of the issues here.

We as a movement are by far the most superior at organising by committee, and achieving absolutely nothing. This is a case in point.

Either, people need to take control of their destiny / legacy, or let someone else do it and end up with a movement, that will be creaking at the joints and marching at slower than Vets pace.

Some may well ask if I have done anything about this, and the answer is no, but that is because I choose not to. Where I have wanted to voice an opinioncomplaint, I have taken the bull by the horns, and got on with it. There is too much talk and not enough action. This little thread will peter out due to apathy, and that is the main problem with brass bands at the moment. We all know what we want, but are either too lazy, or too scared to confront the issues at hand.

I agree with most of what you are saying here, but what about those of us who actually took time to respond in the hope of having a say or at least make a tiny difference at the meeting in July? Don't you find it massively disappointing that that effort has had such an apathetic response by UKBBA? I just can't see that if they had any sort of commitment to their cause that they don't have time to collate the feedback before July.

And therein lies the problem: how many times over the years have we got excited that something is going to improve or some sort of change for the better is going to happen, only for it to fizzle out? I still maintain that the cynicism displayed here, on several other threads and out in the real world is just a reflection of this lack of commitment to furthering the cause of the movement by the people who have the power to change things.

 

[$hytalk]

Has anyone thought that the ukbba people may have had a massive response to their feed-back invitation?

 

[WoodenFlugel]

Yes (though I doubt it). But to my mind that doesn't excuse the postponement / cancellation of the meeting, for two reasons. Firstly, they should have anticipated the response and how long it would take to sort out some feedback and then set the meeting date to suit. Secondly, if the response has genuinely been better than anticipated, they owe it to everyone who took time to respond to put the work in so the feedback is done in time for the date that they themselves set.

In any case it doesn't have to be cast in stone, absolute data does it? What's wrong with presenting an overview of the pertinent points raised? In many cases there is no point in presenting microscopic details, as very often it just confuses the issue.

To be honest though what I think has happened is that they have received very little feedback, and have retired to lick their wounds. If this is the case (IMO) they should still hold the meeting regardless. If the cause is worthwhile people will latch on to it eventually, but it takes time.

 

[timbloke]

We all know what we want, but are either too lazy, or too scared to confront the issues at hand.

I don't think it is out of laziness, or fear. Probably more that the type of people who have got the drive to do something are far too busy running and playing in their own bands to devote additional time to thinking strategically, and secondly (as is repeated almost hourly on this forum) the current network of numerous disfunctional and disjointed "old boys clubs" is not a very easy beast to confront. Where is the head?

We have been in the 21st Century for 11 years. tMP has been around for 9 of them. Everyone else in the world is embracing new media and communication methods - even politicians discussing twitter can be headline news - so why not the few people in the movement who have the time and influence to do something.

 

[IanHeard]

To be honest though what I think has happened is that they have received very little feedback, and have retired to lick their wounds. If this is the case (IMO) they should still hold the meeting regardless. If the cause is worthwhile people will latch on to it eventually, but it takes time.

We`re all guessing, but I think the negative feedback or oppostion is more likely to have come from one the constituent bodies of the UKBBA rather than a lack of feedback or opposition from an individual as you are suggesting.
This is from the 4br article on the postponement....
"Having worked well together for 10 months we now find ourselves, as a result of feedback (including some expressed opposition) to the published proposals, needing more time to iron out the final details before presenting our recommendations to the next summit".....
That quote in the press release suggests to me that the opposition feedback is coming from within.

 

[rosolino]

What effect will this have on setting up UKBBA, if any?

www.4barsrest.com/news/detail.asp?id=13422

One cloth cap kingdom down ..... how many to go?

 

[IanHeard]

http://www.4barsrest.com/news/detail.asp?id=14644

Good news this, the UKBBA would of been the biggest white elephant in the history of Banding.
Speaking as an English bander, it`s now over to you EFBB!

 

[Thirteen Ball]

Speaking as an English bander, it`s now over to you EFBB!

And what's to suggest they have any more of a chance to succeed?

You and I have had this debate before Ian, and the things we broadly agreed on are thus:

1) For an umbrella organisation to succeed (Whether it's remit is UK or england) it needs to control nationl-level access to contesting, as this is quite simply the only unifying factor that brass bands have.

2) To control contesting, it needs the support of the national championships of great britain - because that is simply the most all-encompassing arm of contesting that there is.

3) Every time this is proposed, the regional committees kick off about it, and the organisers of the national championships support them, and nothing changes.

To be blunt, it doesn't matter what we think or do, as too many people have too much interest in perpetuating the current shambles for anything positive to happen. By supporting the regional committees, Kapitol keep banding divided - and by soing so, ensure they are the ones with the real power because no regional comittee alone can challenge them, and no-one else can hope to unite the regional comittees against them, as that would erode the borders of their respective empires.

Until Kapitol (or whoever owns the national championships in future) decide to support an organisation, and enforce membership as part of the entry criteria, then we don't even have the capacity to consult the banding community at large on what needs to change - far less actually do anything.

So as things are, we'll stumble along in the current state of ridiculous disorganisation conflicting agendas, disharmony and disunity, until one day some one will realise they don't have any bands entering their areas because the time for action was 20 years ago and it's now too late to do anything because everyone with the skills to sort it out is either dead or so hacked off with infighting they now want nothing to do with it.

Massive respect to Stan for actually trying to do something and more power to him - but he can't do it on his own, and unless he gets some support from some of the little empires out there, I don't see anything positive happening in the near future.

 

[James Yelland]

(contesting) is quite simply the only unifying factor that brass bands have.

Music?

 

[Thirteen Ball]

Music?

Seems largely a side issue in a lot of cases doesn't it?

 

[James Yelland]

Seems largely a side issue in a lot of cases doesn't it?

Only for contesting bands. For all those non-contesting ensembles (and there are an awful lot of them) it's the main issue.

 

[IanHeard]

To be blunt, it doesn't matter what we think or do, as too many people have too much interest in perpetuating the current shambles for anything positive to happen. By supporting the regional committees, Kapitol keep banding divided - and by soing so, ensure they are the ones with the real power because no regional comittee alone can challenge them, and no-one else can hope to unite the regional comittees against them, as that would erode the borders of their respective empires.

Hi TB.
The elephant in the room for the 6 English regions is the continued success of the Scottish national body and perhaps the future success of the fledgling Welsh one.
It is I`m afraid becoming increasingly untenable for the English regional commitees to simply state they are only here to "run a contest" for Kapitol when in the SBBA we have an example of good practice on our doorstep.....a growth of 50 youth bands in Scotland in 5 years!??...if that is`nt a stat that highlights the possibilities of a fully funded (and fully backed by the 6 English regions) EFBB I don`t know what is.
The future of English banding requires a brave leap of faith by the English regions, lets hope they make it.

 

[trombone-john]

And what's to suggest they have any more of a chance to succeed?

You and I have had this debate before Ian, and the things we broadly agreed on are thus:

1) For an umbrella organisation to succeed (Whether it's remit is UK or england) it needs to control nationl-level access to contesting, as this is quite simply the only unifying factor that brass bands have.

2) To control contesting, it needs the support of the national championships of great britain - because that is simply the most all-encompassing arm of contesting that there is.

3) Every time this is proposed, the regional committees kick off about it, and the organisers of the national championships support them, and nothing changes.

To be blunt, it doesn't matter what we think or do, as too many people have too much interest in perpetuating the current shambles for anything positive to happen. By supporting the regional committees, Kapitol keep banding divided - and by soing so, ensure they are the ones with the real power because no regional comittee alone can challenge them, and no-one else can hope to unite the regional comittees against them, as that would erode the borders of their respective empires.

Until Kapitol (or whoever owns the national championships in future) decide to support an organisation, and enforce membership as part of the entry criteria, then we don't even have the capacity to consult the banding community at large on what needs to change - far less actually do anything.

So as things are, we'll stumble along in the current state of ridiculous disorganisation conflicting agendas, disharmony and disunity, until one day some one will realise they don't have any bands entering their areas because the time for action was 20 years ago and it's now too late to do anything because everyone with the skills to sort it out is either dead or so hacked off with infighting they now want nothing to do with it.

Massive respect to Stan for actually trying to do something and more power to him - but he can't do it on his own, and unless he gets some support from some of the little empires out there, I don't see anything positive happening in the near future.

:clap: :clap: :clap: