Time to retire Sibelius?

BrianT

Member
Anyone on here using Notion on iPad? Apple are plugging it at the moment...

Is it time to retire Sibelius?
 

David Evans

Active Member
I understood that the whole development team, British, had been disbanded last year when it was sold, and there would be NO further development of Sibelius. The development manager was quoted as saying that he intended to produce his own program in the future with many of the redundant software team.
So, perhaps you are right and it is time.
 

TheFopp

Member
Sibelius is still getting updates. Version 7.5 has been released recently and they are working on version 8, but as David pointed out, the programming team were given the boot as AVID were trying to cut costs. They tried to assemble a team of programmers from Eastern Europe I believe, and now a new team has been assembled, but they have to try and figure out and learn the old code first.

Steinberg, has snapped up the old Sibelius development team, and have for the last year been developing a brand new score writing package that looks very interesting indeed. There is a lot of work still to be done on it, but they are approaching in a whole new way and could well be worth the wait. I believe, once they have the PC/Mac version up and running they wish to build an iPad version that will compliment it. Daniel Spreadbury, who leads the Steinberg team, and formerly lead the Sibelius team has blog that is updated every to or three months showing how they are developing the new system. Its very interesting if you are into that sort of thing! ( http://blog.steinberg.net/ )
 

MoominDave

Well-Known Member
I'm on Sibelius 7.0 - I've been avoiding updating to subsequent releases as sacking a whole software team and buying in cheaper replacements that don't know the code seems an obvious recipe for the creation of silly bugs... Anyone have any comment on how recent Sibelius versions are doing relative to 7.0?
 

BrianT

Member
All these posts about the political machinations at Avid/Sibelius are v. interesting, but slightly off-post. And don't knock 'Eastern European Programmers' - they're bright blokes, make no mistake. (Anyone fancy reading technical documentation in your second language and trying to understand it? It's hard enough when English is your first language!)

What I like is the idea of having score software on the iPad - I just want to know if Notion is any good.
 

DRW

New Member
All these posts about the political machinations at Avid/Sibelius are v. interesting, but slightly off-post. And don't knock 'Eastern European Programmers' - they're bright blokes, make no mistake. (Anyone fancy reading technical documentation in your second language and trying to understand it? It's hard enough when English is your first language!)

What I like is the idea of having score software on the iPad - I just want to know if Notion is any good.
I've no experience of it, but this gives some insight.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr13/articles/notion-4.htm

Sounds like it wouldn't be a suitable replacement for PC-based software, but isn't bad if you have to have something that works on an ipad.
 

2nd tenor

Well-Known Member
And don't knock 'Eastern European Programmers' - they're bright blokes, make no mistake.
If someone knocked the Eastern Europeans it was probably unintential.

"Sacking a whole software team and buying in cheaper replacements that don't know the code seems an obvious recipe for the creation of silly bugs" is true, true regardless of nationality and broadly true regardless of price. In this case the loss of particular experience and product knowledge is the issue. My general experience of Eastern Europeans is that they work hard and cause relatively little trouble, many struggle with English and that could well make some documentation difficult for them - assuming that it's not already available in their mother tongue.
 

Cornet Nev.

Member
Possibly leaving the door wide open for Finale I suppose, which is my preferred notation program any way. I did buy Sibelius and just couldn't work with it.

However for anyone wanting to get into notational programs with little or no cost, there is always the open source MuseScore, which seems to try for the better parts of both Sibelius and Finale, however like most free programs, it does have several drawbacks, or useful stuff missing that the paid for does have.
 

owain_s

Member
I seem to remember that MakeMusic, who produce Finale, were bought out by a venture capital firm not long ago? A similar situation to Sibelius, asset-stripping by flogging one final major 'update' by putting new programmers to work on the features already in production.

The biggest problem, in the longer term, is that both programs use closed proprietary file formats. With Sibelius, every file is also encrypted by their own mechanism. Reverse-engineering these is nigh-on impossible, so there's a very real possibility that it will become very difficult to access one's own scores using any (future) everyday technology.
 

Gordon Miller

New Member
I had no idea the Sibelius team got the kick - I've not been following the manoeuvres of AVID since the takeover. I've been a Sibelius junkie for, gosh, at least 15 years now (since I was a high school student) but when Steinberg is ready it may well be time to move over there. I love the idea of a tablet platform to operate as a compliment.
 

David Evans

Active Member
Here is the latest news on 'Dorico', Steinberg's alternative to Sibelius and Finale. It is now in Beta testing and estimated to be released in the next few months.

www.steinberg.net • View forum - Dorico [pre-release]

Here are the likely licensing arrangements

When you buy the boxed version of Dorico, you will receive in your package an Activation Code that allows you to activate Dorico using the Soft-eLicenser. Using this Activation Code will lock Dorico to a single computer. You will also receive a hardware USB-eLicenser key in your package, to which you can optionally move your Dorico license.

When you buy the download version of Dorico, you will receive an Activation Code that allows you to activate Dorico using the Soft-eLicenser. If you would like to transfer your copy of Dorico to a USB-eLicenser and you do not already have one, you will be able to buy one from the Steinberg online shop or your reseller, and then transfer your license to your USB-eLicenser. We plan to set the price of the download version of Dorico lower than the boxed version, so that if you choose to buy the download version but later decide to move your license to a USB-eLicenser, the intention is that, barring significant pricing differences in different territories, you should not pay more overall than if you had initially bought the boxed version.

Once you have moved your Dorico license from the Soft-eLicenser to the USB-eLicenser, Dorico will only run if the USB-eLicenser is plugged into a USB port on that computer.

If you choose to transfer your Dorico license from the Soft-eLicenser to the USB-eLicenser, at present you cannot subsequently transfer your license back to the Soft-eLicenser. However, our eLicenser team is investigating the feasibility of allowing a license to be moved from the USB-eLicenser back to a Soft-eLicenser, which would make it possible to move your Dorico license from one computer to another, and then run it on that computer without requiring the USB-eLicenser any longer. This capability may not be ready by the time of Dorico's initial public release, so we will provide further information about this at a later date.

Steinberg is always reviewing its licensing technologies in the light of changing customer and business needs, and looking to the future we plan to introduce new capabilities to our eLicenser system that will address the needs of customers to run the software on their computers without the use of the USB-eLicenser while still protecting both their and Steinberg's investment in our software.
Lets hope that the user manual is written by someone else.
 

Slider1

Active Member
Here is the latest news on 'Dorico', Steinberg's alternative to Sibelius and Finale. It is now in Beta testing and estimated to be released in the next few months.

www.steinberg.net • View forum - Dorico [pre-release]

Here are the likely licensing arrangements



Lets hope that the user manual is written by someone else.
I maybe getting on a bit but Sibelius Does what I want it to do. Also it seems to understand my English.
 

DocFox

Retired
I have Sibelius 7.5 and use it without complaint. I bought Finale, but I like Sibelius much better and never upgraded Finale. I also bought Sibelius First thinking I could use that for simple arrangements. It was awful and it collects dust. ScoreExchange is huge and is all Sibelius-based showing the huge Sibelius following. I bought Sibelius Version 1 many years ago and have been upgrading ever since. I have arranged hymns and church music mostly, although I do have two scores on ScoreExchange.

I have lots and lots of arrangements done over the years. I would hate to see Sibelius disappear. Working on my iPad seems like more work than on the computer (my opinion). I guess time will tell. I might not jump to Sibelius 8 quickly, and wait and see if these new programmers get the hang of things.
 

gcbtrom

Member
Still using Sibelius 5...
Have tried a Finale and couldn't get on with it.
Have also tried muse score which is a backup for me.
 

DocFox

Retired
A good friend of mine who has written several fine pieces, but is stubborn, is still is using Sib 6. He is very knowledgeable. He has had symphonies and concert bands play his pieces. But because he cannot make a living off of his composing, he gets depressed. He will never upgrade. In fact, I doubt he will ever write another piece. But he knows Sibelius so well I can ask questions (I am usings 7.5) and he always helps me find a solution.

I still think Sibelius is too well known and loved to be dropped. Improvements from version 1 to 7.5 have been a more convenient layout and better use of MIDI. Not sure a new version would give much to current users.
 

GJG

Well-Known Member
Now the initial version has been released, has anyone on here used Dorico "in anger" yet?
First impressions?
 

Richard N.

New Member
Gareth - I have dabbled with Dorico and found it to similar to Sibelius (I'm not knocking Sibelius, just saying how I find it) in that you have to do what the software wants, not the other way around.

As for prime time, there are many things missing including 1st/2nd time bars and drumkit notation- take a look on the Stenberg/Dorico forum, there are may advocate of the software, but the most common answer to technical queries is that Dorico "can't do this at the moment but we hope it will soon".

There is a free demo that you can download and try.
 

GJG

Well-Known Member
Yes, I'm on the mailing list, and I did get a "free activation code" for a trial version. I haven't bothered downloading it yet, partly because of lack of time to mess around with it, but also because it seems strange that they've rushed out the first release without including some pretty basic required functionality.
I'm only curious because I'm starting to lose confidence in Finale - not with the product itself but I find the way the present management team treats the customer base to be disturbing. The recent fiasco over their shutting down the user forum being a case in point.
 

Richard N.

New Member
There have been at least two updates since the initial release and more are due (it feels like one every couple of months). if you haven't activated the demo yet, I would suggest you hold back until the basic features you want are there - you only get one month trial at the current version so it you activate it now, you won't be able to try say drumkit notation when it is introduced at a later date.
 

GJG

Well-Known Member
Good point. The only thing is, although I'm on the mailing list, I don't seem to get any notifications of product updates ... I suppose they restrict those to people who've ponied up.
 
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