third person better than second

yonhee

Active Member
2nd man down said:
Good lord!! :rolleyes:

What does your name mean? Is that the noise you make when someone sits on you??

You what?
no it isnt my name means sumit to do with happiness an light which is stoopid cos im a vampire an vampires dont like light...
 

Sellers_Bird

Active Member
2nd man down said:
this whole thread has major repercussions for me!!

*note to self...don't have your position in the band as your user name next time stupid!! :-( *


yep... heed the mans advice :p
 

Cornishwomble

Active Member
yonhee said:
You what?
no it isnt my name means sumit to do with happiness an light which is stoopid cos im a vampire an vampires dont like light...

Or garlic and holy water I presume? That's you out of the next annual church French fete isnt it, especially if it's held during the day!
 

welshraz

Member
HorniKaz said:
That's complete utter nonsense! The committee is there surely to ensure the smooth running of the band but its the MD who's responsible for getting the best, musically, out of the band.

We, as a member of Hoover's committee, wouldn't dream of telling Chris how to do his job. Yes he 'works' for the band, but he knows what's best! I would have thought that your MD would be a little miffed at being restrained from doing what he/she probably does best!

I totally agree. Two of the commitee members have an unusually strong command over the band and the MD can't seem to wipe his bum without asking first. The truth is that the commitee are afraid of "upsetting" certain players and like to tread carefully around them regardless of their performance or commitment. As I am new to the commitee, I am trying to make changes and allow the MD to make these "difficult" choices without being spanked like a naughty school boy. I know for a fact that our MD had been asked not to say certain things to two of our players about their playing or commitment and it really gets on my wick because they don't deserve to be sat where they are.
 

HorniKaz

Supporting Member
welshraz said:
As I am new to the commitee, I am trying to make changes and allow the MD to make these "difficult" choices without being spanked like a naughty school boy. .

Just want to wish you the best of luck! There's nothing worse than politics within a band!
 

Fergus

Member
In our band the "moving & shaking" is decided upon ultimately by the committee however some consultation will be made with the conductor. Fortunately in the past few years we've not needed to make many difficult changes. At anytime these have happened we have always tried to put across a consistent message - that the changes are for the benefit of the band.

Welshraz - I to can only wish you luck with your current dilemma and only hope you get things fixed soon. Politics and brass bands don't mix but sadly they are all too common.
 

Despot

Member
welshraz said:
The truth is that the commitee are afraid of "upsetting" certain players and like to tread carefully around them regardless of their performance or commitment.

I think where players treats a band with disregard and assume the chair will be always there when they bother turning should be binned. No matter how short of players you are, no-one should be allowed disrespect the band. You might be short for a while but in the long run it does more damage to the band not to, and eats away at the morale of those who do turn up.
 

flugelgal

Active Member
Despot said:
I think where players treats a band with disregard and assume the chair will be always there when they bother turning up should be binned. No matter how short of players you are, no-one should be allowed disrespect the band. You might be short for a while but in the long run it does more damage to the band not to, and eats away at the morale of those who do turn up.

Well said - this is one of the reasons why I didn't join a certain band that's quite far away from Dublin. I want to be at every rehearsal of my band because I've been in a situation where seats are empty on a regular basis, and it's not fair on the other players when a seat is empty all the time. Players need to all be there for balance etc and also so they know what to listen out for and so that they feel comfortable playing together.

On the question of "who should sit where" I think that this should be entirely up to the MD - MD stands for Musical Director so as the person who is directing the music they should be the one who decides who is most suited for each seat. I don't believe that the "best" players should be on the front row either. You have principals in the back row too - the rep is an important part, and the top 2nd and top 3rd also have a responsibility to lead bits too. If I played 3rd cornet I wouldn't expect to be thought of as any less good than a 2nd cornet or a solo cornet just because I'm sitting at the bottom. All the parts are equally important and so they need to all come out - same on front row. I think all the front row players should be capable of taking over the principal seat if something happens during a gig or before it. Ok this is an ideal situation in an ideal world, and not everybody is exactly the same standard but if you put all your best players on top then your band won't be balanced at all.

I also think if I was sitting 3rd "man" down and I thought I was better than the person who was 2nd "man" down this may be frustrating for me if I thought that way, but it's not about who's best, it's about what is best for the band - I might have a better sound, or a better range, but not be so good at supporting the person next to me, which the 2nd "man" down really needs to do.

Don't ever think that if you are sitting to the left of someone that implies you are not as good as them - this is not the case at all.
 

Keppler

Moderator
Staff member
welshraz said:
As I am new to the commitee, I am trying to make changes and allow the MD to make these "difficult" choices without being spanked like a naughty school boy.

Hmm difficult one this. As with all things, it depends on your band, and your group of people. With some groups, MDs come and MDs go, and it's down to the same core of individuals to put the hard graft in, and pick up the pieces afterward.
Especially in cases where an MD "comes from outside", he or she may not see the same picture as a long-standing member, and thus, to give him or her free reign without some sort of accountability is foolish, in my opinion. When we get down to it, banding (especially at grass-roots level) is as much about people as about music, and I would tend to suggest even more so.
 

kiwiposaune

New Member
This issue makes or breaks a lot of bands. Most bands - or organisations for that matter - have a 'way we do things around here'. Everybody understands that and most people behave accordingly. In some bands you sit in your chair until you die. In other bands there's a healthy degree of teamwork and 'taking one for the team'. If the culture of your band is not right, in that regard, you have to work hard to change it.

Some time ago I took over the conducting job of a band that 20 years ago was one of the leading A Grade (Championship Section) bands in New Zealand. Over the last 20 years it's fallen upon quite hard times (including recent relegation), most of them self-inflicted. It was obvious that a lot of changes needed to take place. Some of the changes involved losing players (that's not quite so difficult) and some of them involved moving players (much more difficult in this particular band). I started out by approaching the players I thought most likely to accept change - in particular a long time solo cornet player who eventually agreed to become the back row 'section leader' and play 2nd cornet and another solo cornet player who, after some negotiation, agreed to play 2nd horn. Once a couple of changes took place (involving prominent players) it became more difficult for other players not to co-operate. We haven't totally changed the culture here yet - that will take more time and a few good results - but we're on the way. It helps that we won first time out!
 

welshraz

Member
kiwiposaune said:
Some time ago I took over the conducting job of a band that 20 years ago was one of the leading A Grade (Championship Section) bands in New Zealand. Over the last 20 years it's fallen upon quite hard times (including recent relegation), most of them self-inflicted. It was obvious that a lot of changes needed to take place. Some of the changes involved losing players (that's not quite so difficult) and some of them involved moving players (much more difficult in this particular band). I started out by approaching the players I thought most likely to accept change - in particular a long time solo cornet player who eventually agreed to become the back row 'section leader' and play 2nd cornet and another solo cornet player who, after some negotiation, agreed to play 2nd horn. Once a couple of changes took place (involving prominent players) it became more difficult for other players not to co-operate. We haven't totally changed the culture here yet - that will take more time and a few good results - but we're on the way. It helps that we won first time out!

Were, you by any chance, involved with a youth band from Wales that was on tour during last summer?? GGYBB?? If so, I was there!! Loved the tour and loved NZ, and I can't wait to go back.

Thanks everyone for your support. I am ready and willing to make some changes and to make a difference. I have already started by making the band a more "social" place, starting with a good drinking session tomorrow for the rugby (Cymru am byth!!).
 

kiwiposaune

New Member
Hi Raz,

Your band and ours did a concert together in a church in Wellington. It was our band's last gig before I started conducting it. From memory I think I played a trombone solo. We really enjoyed hearing you and, by all accounts, a number of our players really enjoyed partying with you after the concert. Glad you had a good time - come back soon!
 

welshraz

Member
kiwiposaune said:
Your band and ours did a concert together in a church in Wellington. It was our band's last gig before I started conducting it. From memory I think I played a trombone solo. We really enjoyed hearing you and, by all accounts, a number of our players really enjoyed partying with you after the concert. Glad you had a good time - come back soon!

Oh yes, I do remember. The whole three weeks seem like such a blur. I don't play for that band anymore as I am now too old (sob!). I will definately be back though and there has even been some talk about me and my partner (who was on tour as a supporter) moving over there. I guess we will just have to wait and see......
 

Primary

tMP Assistant
Here are some related products that tMP members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to tMP’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to tMP discussions about these products.

 
 
Top