The mud-slinging continues...! [ABBA discussion]

MoominDave

Well-Known Member
Personally I found the tone of voice and manner of Mr Buckley's response to be petty and undignified. I think it would have been far btter if he had simply kept his counsel, even if the points he made are accurate. I am reminded of a thread and a post by Dave Taylor.

Ha, yes. I am reminded of that debacle too.
 

umchacha56k

Member
is it safe to say 100% of people are never going to be happy with whatever happens, though everyone agrees something should happen.

The question is how to make all these opinions heard? and who exactly do we need to hear them?!

As has already been stated there is no one central body but you cant just form one like that.

Id love to say send a questionnaire or some other thing out to all the secretaries of all the bands but much easier than said than done and also costly!

everyone seems to have plenty of ideas, for whats its worth i think a mix of all of them would probably work! ( or at least be an interesting change ) The question is how to implement them?

If anyone has the answer that would be great!
 

Thirteen Ball

Active Member
I've tried to get on 4Br to read the various arguments and ripostes - but I keep getting a resource not found error. Is 4Br dead at present?
 

DMBabe

Supporting Member
Or maybe ABBA have infiltrated with one of their many "internet spies" and shut it down?
 

timbloke

Member
I've finally managed to get on to 4br to actually read the offending article. My conclusion is that neither PA or CBB (what is the C for?) have been particularly proactive in their approach and both could have sounded less personal, and hence could've helped build some momentum on actually improving the situation. As it is, the title of this thread seems highly appropriate, it is a load of mud-slinging.

But back to the real debate amongst the (relatively) rational people on tMP.

As has already been stated there is no one central body but you cant just form one like that.

Why not? Ok, I admit it would be hard work, require a lot of time and investment, but who is to stop a group of us getting together and coming up with a sensible alternative to the current disjointed mess of organisations working at odds with each other. I'm sure there are enough talented people on tMP who could at least put together a business plan and ideas on how such a system would work. The "old boys" don't seem to be able to do it. Viva la revolution (or something like that?).
 

Thirteen Ball

Active Member
I have to say, having read both articles now, for me, Mr Buckley has the best of the exchanges. And I find it difficult to disagree with many of th points he makes.

In the initial thread where Wire stated they had ceased contesting, there was a graph provided that listed their progress over recent years, as support for why they'd taken the decision that they had - and to be honest, the fact that the only backward slide was one year's drop from 4th to 8th in the top section is difficult to see past - as is the point that no complaint was made when they were winning. Taking nothing away from the quality of the northwest area - but imagine all the fun they'd have had in a Yorkshire top section with that attitude!

No, clearly there is a lot more to their decision than anything that the pens of any adjudicator (Abba or otherwise) could inflict upon a band, and the way Mr Buckley has put that does read very well. If Wire had been consistently brilliant at top section level for several years and been unjustly placed in the lower quartile of the results - then the argument might have more weight. The fact they got a 4th shows they were doing something that the Adjudicators liked - but 3 contests just isn't a big enough sample to base that sort of deduction on. And to place the level of blame that has been placed at the foot of ABBA by PA is, I feel, a little unjustified.

Yes, they have proven themselves somewhat inflexible, occasionally resistant to change and vigorously defended the status quo - and I have previously raised my own suggestions for methods of adjudication at contests, which run contrary to ABBA's accepted processes - but to practically accuse them of driving a band out of contesting is hardly fair. After all, we only contest because we want to, don't we?
 

umchacha56k

Member
In theory i understand and think thats great and im sure there are the people! I just think it may be difficult as any group like that has to be accepted by everyone else first as there representation and then has to deal with all the other organisations in existence- this takes a lot of hard work and as you've already pointed out money!

If that could be overcome then i think something like that could be set up. I think i mis wrote my post i shouldn't of said you 'can't' more like it would be extremely difficult!
 

Kinrao

Member
I repeat my question, why would a regional/national commitee like Scotland (as an example) want a "central controlling organisation" interfering with their business?
The Scots "dine-out" on their independence of thought as regards banding matters and the last time I looked, banding in Scotland is in rude health and more crucially they seem to have a plan.
This is an English problem, why the need to involve the switched on Scots in our pointless English navel gazing?


Ian,

The Scottish association is only one of the regional organisations that run in the UK, in fact, there are two of the SBBA executive on the UK strategy group. So the idea of the Scots being governed by a UK wide organisation isn't a problem. The SBBA could still be pioneering in it's approach to contest organisation and youth banding.

The last I heard incedently, was that the findings from this group would start to be known this month.
 

IanHeard

Member
Ian,

The Scottish association is only one of the regional organisations that run in the UK, in fact, there are two of the SBBA executive on the UK strategy group. So the idea of the Scots being governed by a UK wide organisation isn't a problem. The SBBA could still be pioneering in it's approach to contest organisation and youth banding.

The last I heard incedently, was that the findings from this group would start to be known this month.

Thanks Kinrao for the info,
So if all the Area commitees (inc.the SBBA) were expected via a UK body to adopt the "uniformity" others have talked about, the SBBA would not see his as a problem?
 

DMBabe

Supporting Member
Thanks Kinrao for the info,
So if all the Area commitees (inc.the SBBA) were expected via a UK body to adopt the "uniformity" others have talked about, the SBBA would not see his as a problem?

Surely not if things were agreed fairly and compromises made to suit all? or as near as possible at least.
 

James Yelland

Well-Known Member

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IanHeard

Member
Surely not if things were agreed fairly and compromises made to suit all? or as near as possible at least.

Sorry to sound negative DM, but I have this vision of the various delegates of the UK Banding body returning to their home areas with a UK wide plan for banding, and that plan being rebuffed immediately by some and as a result we are stuck in the stultifying rut that we have now enjoyed for too many years in England at least.
I don`t know a great deal about the SBBA, but are they set up constitutionally to take direction from any possible UK umbrella organisation?
 

DMBabe

Supporting Member
I don`t know a great deal about the SBBA, but are they set up constitutionally to take direction from any possible UK umbrella organisation?

Is any brass band asociation? I don't know either...... but optimism is how things get done. People being willing to try something new in the hope it'll turn out better?
 

JRH

Member
I don't know either...... but optimism is how things get done. People being willing to try something new in the hope it'll turn out better?

Well yes, but you see, this is an online web forum, where optimism and hope are not only frowned upon, but a downright illegal activity. :frown:
 

Kinrao

Member
Sorry to sound negative DM, but I have this vision of the various delegates of the UK Banding body returning to their home areas with a UK wide plan for banding, and that plan being rebuffed immediately by some and as a result we are stuck in the stultifying rut that we have now enjoyed for too many years in England at least.
I don`t know a great deal about the SBBA, but are they set up constitutionally to take direction from any possible UK umbrella organisation?

What hasn't become clear Ian is what the new umbrella organisation will bring in terms of change. If this is the right thing for everyone else then it will be right for Scotland too, after all our bands take part in the National and Open championships so constitutionally, we already take direction.
 
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