The 2008 North West Regrading debate

ballyhorn

Member
Looking at results, the better players didn't really make much of a difference did they? Deaf adjudicators! :)

Oh how you must be jumping for joy...what a pathetic statement....Like I said earlier did you really expect that getting one or two decent players would mean the band would win?????...Well I hope you enjoy the bands defeat (in your eyes)....and have a little celebratory chuckle to yourself....I was personally proud that the band managed to put on a decent show with god knows how many youngsters,and to see their faces after we had finished...Good luck to Dobcross and if they keep the players they will be up there competing with the best soon...
 

The Wherryman

Active Member
Looking at results, the better players didn't really make much of a difference did they? Deaf adjudicators! :)

The results show that what was said, time and time again, about the regrading was correct. Even with the "better" players who came along after the regrading, Dobcross are, in the opinion of the adjudicator, a Third Section band. Their mid-placing in the results has not affected the promotions or demotions one iota and gives them another year in which to stabilise and re-build.

My congratulations to the winners, commiserations to the losers and best wishes to Dobcross for the future.
 
I had the pleasure of conducting a 3rd section band which gained second place yesterday and was delighted to see the joy and satisfaction on the faces of some very young players after their performance. This was before the results were given.
Surely this is more important than moaning about whether a band has strengthened by adding some top class players.
Despite my own disagreements with the Dobcross MD in the past, I am pleased to see the band continue and hope that the experience will ensure the continued enthusiasm of these young players with Dobcross.
Well done!
Grenville Moore
 

big H

New Member
I had the pleasure of conducting a 3rd section band which gained second place yesterday and was delighted to see the joy and satisfaction on the faces of some very young players after their performance. This was before the results were given.
Surely this is more important than moaning about whether a band has strengthened by adding some top class players.
Despite my own disagreements with the Dobcross MD in the past, I am pleased to see the band continue and hope that the experience will ensure the continued enthusiasm of these young players with Dobcross.
Well done!
Grenville Moore

Thank you very much indeed.
A VERY VERY proud dad !
 

Thirteen Ball

Active Member
Oh how you must be jumping for joy...what a pathetic statement....Like I said earlier did you really expect that getting one or two decent players would mean the band would win?????...

Might I direct your attention in the direction of the yorkshire area thread?

Too many people think this sort of thing, ie: one or two signings make a band unbeatable, when usually they're looking in from outside the situation and aren't aware of all the facts. It's not just restricted to criticism of dobcross by any means.

To be honest, I don't care how they managed it. The band didn't fold, (As so many great names have down the years) are still playing and competing, and this can ONLY be a good thing for banding as a whole.
 

Mephi

Member
Well said Bally! I've only just looked at this thread and some points are justified, some are plain banding bitching! Normally I wouldn't have bothered if I missed a Dobcross area performance before(no offence meant!) but when my father and I got through the Winter gardens doors and heard that they were on next we went straight in. This wasn't to 'have a laugh' it was to see how much work had gone in and what difference the 'ringers' made. Conclusion: Yes it did help having experienced players around, there are some good young players there who needed a boost, not having the part played for them though! Bally is a cracking horn player but out of action, why not use him? Same goes for Neil H, if Dennis wanted to really milk the advantages he had, why not have him on flugel? Didn't need to, lass did a great job on her own! (Must admit the experience of playing for DobX does seem to have sent Mr Hewson a tad grey haired though - perhaps it was my eyes or the lighting hehe!) Result proved that there is still work to do and I am fully behind them, if I hadn't been involved the week before I would have responded to Dennis' call for help in January, making me one of the targeted 'villains'.

Banding is a great institution and dare i say hobby, why does so much sniping have to come into it!
 

xdobx

New Member
Thank goodness we didn’t win. How many Bandsmen (or ex Bandsmen like me) have said that? Not very many I would guess. I am dismayed by the number of contributors to this thread who think that the Band is deliberately trying to cheat by requesting a third section berth. It saddens me that there are so many narrow minded bands people. The Bands request to be graded section 3 was based on an honest judgement that that was the right level to compete at, and judging by the result this weekend, they were spot on.
Well done Dobcross, well done for continuing the 130 year tradition by trying your best and striving for perfection. You made me and a lot of other ex-players very, very proud and for my money should have been placed higher – but that’s contesting for ya!
I must have met over 20 ex Dobx players on Sunday, many now playing for the very best bands, some just helping out but it confirmed my belief that the Band must be trusted to rebuild in the manner that it chooses. The movement needs bands like Dobcross regardless of what section they compete in – they do it right – they work hard and play hard.

To all those contributors to this thread who doubted the integrity of the Bands intentions and would rather the Band had folded – shame on you. To all those who are frightened of stiffer competition in the third section – be afraid, be very afraid because Dobx are back!

Well done to Oldham Brass & Uppermill, Jane@ Wardle, Grenville @ Eagley and Dave T @ Leyland (again!)
 

Mephi

Member
I totally agree with the last post, for once it is a good thing that DobX didn't win owt! The band can now sit back and say that work has to be done to progress despite the intervention of ex top players but thay have something to work off and also that some people are behind them!!
 

Beesa

Member
I would say (again) that it is the regrading system that is most people's cocncern here. Not Dobcross. Please don't get so defensive. And well done, btw. See you all next year.
 

hellyfrost

Member
I would say (again) that it is the regrading system that is most people's cocncern here. Not Dobcross. Please don't get so defensive. And well done, btw. See you all next year.

Oh I'm sorry, but if it were your band's integrity that was being attacked would you not be a little defensive?!

And people were quite clearly questioning the band and not the grading system before I pointed out how it happened!

I'll await the deluge of apologies with baited breath!
 

The Wherryman

Active Member
I would say (again) that it is the regrading system that is most people's cocncern here. Not Dobcross. Please don't get so defensive. And well done, btw. See you all next year.

Oh I'm sorry, but if it were your band's integrity that was being attacked would you not be a little defensive?!

And people were quite clearly questioning the band and not the grading system before I pointed out how it happened!

I'll await the deluge of apologies with baited breath!

I agree with Beesa that the overall underlying concern was with the regrading system. Some people took the opportunity to have a pop at Dobcross, but you had more supporters than detractors.

The regrading issue hasn't been resolved, but, in my opinion, your result has left you holding the moral high ground.

I think you'll have to settle for that, or be prepared bait your breath till the cows come home.
 

dyl

Active Member
I agree with Beesa that the overall underlying concern was with the regrading system. Some people took the opportunity to have a pop at Dobcross, but you had more supporters than detractors.

The regrading issue hasn't been resolved, but, in my opinion, your result has left you holding the moral high ground.

I think you'll have to settle for that, or be prepared bait your breath till the cows come home.

An excellent summary. :clap:
 
Were Timperley regraded wrong when they moved from 3rd section to championship section? They sent in a list of players and got moved, same as Dobcross did. If they decided to let them move through the sections naturally (like many people suggested should happen to dobcross) then they would have been winning everything and just raking it in, again like people were suggesting dobcross were doing. Seems it only works one way round...

I thought Dobcross got a great result at the area after the last year of hard graft, well done!!
 

Beesa

Member
Well, just to play Devil's advocate or is it to put the cat amongst the pigeons . . . .

Lees & Goldwick after scratching about a few years in the Second Section reformed into Oldham Brass '97 who tasted the adrenalin of qualifications in the Third and Second Section and winning the Second Section in 2000 to gain promotion to the First Section. They then stopped competing in the First Section in 2001 after an average result.....

Then....

Oldham (Lees) appeared on the scene in:

2005 - won the Fourth Section

2006 - won the Fourth Section again

2007 - won the Third Section

2008 - won the Third Section again

Add to that some pretty impressive results at the lower section Nationals, in between. Lots and lots to celebrate...?


And my point is.....????
 
Yes Oldham did really well winning that fourth section in 2005 considering 16 members weren't registered and had never stepped foot on a contesting stage.

Good luck to Dobcross,Besses etc... on bringing your bands back to life!
 
And my point is.....????

Yes, what is your point?

That a handful (we were lucky to get 7 or more to a rehersal) of second/third section players kept a band alive for a number of years when they could've all easily walked and settled for an easier life at a thriving band. Instead they were lucky enough to re-launch with a new conductor who brought along a consistent stream of talented young players, the vast majority of whom had never played in a brass band contest. Was that your point?

That said band work very hard before EVERY contest, usually rehearsing EVERY night in the week up to a contest (and thats just not the Area I might add) and 5 nights per week in the week prior to that? All this with pretty much full attendance every rehearsal? Was that your point?

That they fully commit to rehearsing the area test piece straight away in the New Year and all the way through to Preston and then again onto the Areas? Was that your point?

I'm struggling to see what your point actually is? Maybe I'm just being a bit thick, it is early after all.

Oh, and to point you right on your poor history, Lees and Glodwick didnt 're-form' into a new band, Oldham Brass 97 was the result of two seperate bands (Lees and Glodwick and Cobden Chadwick Engineers band, of which I was a member) coming together to form an entirely new band.

And I'd like to echo Cookies sentiments, well done and good luck to all bands who have managed to re-emerge from difficult times. Its very hard to do and your efforts should be commended. Sad that it sometimes isnt.

Congratulations :clap:
 

ballyhorn

Member
Well, just to play Devil's advocate or is it to put the cat amongst the pigeons . . . .

Lees & Goldwick after scratching about a few years in the Second Section reformed into Oldham Brass '97 who tasted the adrenalin of qualifications in the Third and Second Section and winning the Second Section in 2000 to gain promotion to the First Section. They then stopped competing in the First Section in 2001 after an average result.....

Then....

Oldham (Lees) appeared on the scene in:

2005 - won the Fourth Section

2006 - won the Fourth Section again

2007 - won the Third Section

2008 - won the Third Section again

Add to that some pretty impressive results at the lower section Nationals, in between. Lots and lots to celebrate...?


And my point is.....????


Well......arent you good.....lol...So all your posts are about blowing your "OWN" trumpet...lol...shake your own hand and slap yourself on your back for a job well done..We are all proud of you...
 

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