Spring Festival 2009 pieces announced...

Whatever the piece is old or new it will sort the bands out and show their strength weaknesses! If Indian Summer was a Nationals Test piece it will still seperate the bands.
 

Phil Green

Supporting Member
I don't think he was inferring anything by that. Pageantry is a fine test and is a more disciplined and bigger blow than Spectrum, but not technically as hard, and no it is not as difficult a piece as as say Harmony Music, or indeed other recent picks for the cup like Paganini

I think that we'll have to agree to differ. Just my opinion but I remember listening to quite a lot of good Paganini's at the Open and Masters but very, very few good, trouble free, Pageantrys when that was used.

And how do you know that he hasn't REALLY, REALLY rehearsed Pageantry??? I Beg to differ, and would like to refer you here: http://hatfieldband.co.uk/music/music.html I remember well the months of REALLY, REALLY rehearsing this, and I find your comment a bit of an insult to the personal time and effort put into it.

So with respect, whilst I am not questioning your musical experience, much of the tone of your post smacked of 'And what do you know?'

No such thing was intended, indeed if your friend has rehearsed this piece properly and I have nothing to suggest he has or hasn't, he'll completely understand my argument and, whilst perhaps not agreeing to it, will see my point of view. Perhaps that's why he hasn't responded directly. Perhaps I should have written "one" instead of "you" as it was not a personal reproach.

Cheers,
 

Phil Green

Supporting Member
I've read your post, and I think I can see why it has solicited the above reaction.

Hi Andy. Yes you're right - my post could be seen in the way that you infer. It's certainly not meant to be as I'm passionate about "new" music - I actually liked Prague.
My point was that whilst it's relatively easy to bluster your way through many of the more recently written tests - in fact please look at this post to see what can be gotten away with:

http://www.themouthpiece.com/vb/showthread.php?p=605045

- it's much more difficult to get through a piece like Pageantry without noticeable errors - something that is a key problem at a contest!!

Cheers,
 

JohnnyEuph

Member
I think that we'll have to agree to differ

Agreed, but although this piece was difficult for bands at the 1st Section Nats 05. It really shouldn't be too much of an issue for bands in the Senior Cup 09.

No such thing was intended, indeed if your friend has rehearsed this piece properly and I have nothing to suggest he has or hasn't, he'll completely understand my argument and, whilst perhaps not agreeing to it, will see my point of view. Perhaps that's why he hasn't responded directly. Perhaps I should have written "one" instead of "you" as it was not a personal reproach.

Cheers,

Not so much friend more like Brother, and we were both in the band on that day!
 

GJG

Well-Known Member
Agreed, but although this piece was difficult for bands at the 1st Section Nats 05. It really shouldn't be too much of an issue for bands in the Senior Cup 09.

Maybe so, however the point has also been made that whilst on paper it shouldn't have been "too much of an issue" for the bands in the Masters, in practice it was. I didn't hear all of the bands by any means on that occasion, however of the ones I did hear, very few escaped unscathed, even in something as "untechnical" (is there such a word?) as the opening two semis and a dotted minim (IIRC) for unison sop, solo cornets (and possibly rep? I don't have a score to hand). Something doesn't have to be "technical" to be difficult under contest conditions.
 

Jayboy

New Member
Yes all good points. My argument was that in previous years the senior cup has had, in my opinion, more difficult test pieces. Under contest conditions any player can make mistakes on any test piece. I would have prefered a piece that tests the technical ability of all players in the band, I don't think that pageantry does this.

What about the people who have commented about being 'sorry for the championship section bands playing Spectrum'? Don't they make this same argument?
 
Agreed, but although this piece was difficult for bands at the 1st Section Nats 05. It really shouldn't be too much of an issue for bands in the Senior Cup 09.

My prediction is that it will be issue for all bands ...... may not have super Zs and millions of notes but it will pose a stern test in terms of ensemble, colour, balance and that big one.....nerve! I should imagine that there won't be many top cornets, baritones sat on stage on the day claiming it's too easy when they have to start the 2nd and 3rd movements. The first 20 seconds will sort alot of bands out......clarity, balance, ensemble.

This piece is not to be underestimated.
 

Thirteen Ball

Active Member
What about the people who have commented about being 'sorry for the championship section bands playing Spectrum'? Don't they make this same argument?

I think this was more about getting a Vinter overdose.

If you got promoted from the first section in last year's areas you could theoretically wind up with three in a row.

I mean, I really like Philip Wilby's writing - but I wouldn't want to play too much Wilby.
 

brassbandmaestro

Active Member
Contest Music, whilst a very good piece of music, surely a different one chould have been brought out by the panel, as this has been used quite a bit, in recent years.
 

Thirteen Ball

Active Member
My point was that whilst it's relatively easy to bluster your way through many of the more recently written tests - in fact please look at this post to see what can be gotten away with.

I'll certainly agree that there are some pieces which contain sections which appear to be there purely as a technical challenge.

Whilst I don't have anything against this per se I don't see why it should be necessary to do so. For example, the section n St Magnus that's all 9:16, 5:8, 7:8 etc etc which when looked at in musical phrases, could easily be re-scored in 3:4 and 4:4 and line up exactly with the barlines. I've never worked out why Mr Downie felt it necessary to score the section in this manner, as the challenge for the player is still there regardless. It's just written to look harder than it is - which is pointless.

Compare that with the infamout top E to pedal D euph cadenza in Harmony music which, though a terrific test of ability for any player, must also be musically correct or it will sound utterly lifeless and flat.

So yes, no piece should ever be ENTIRELY a technical showcase. But bands of a certain level should be able to demonstrate a certain range of technical ability. The ability to get a prague-style dischord in tune so the clashes actually work as written, for example, as well as the ability to get a normal major chord in tune.

But likewise, you can't have a piece without a few bits bit that the band thinks "Crikey, that's going to be a nightmare to get my fingers round" or similar.

Like anything else, it's a balance. There's be no point throwing Variations on a Ninth out at the Albert Hall, because any band that's qualified in the top section will be able to dash the dots off without any trouble at all and the only real difference will be the interpretation - so the winners will be the performance the adjudicators liked rather than the best performance on the day. And that's hardly the point of a contest. Likewise, there is no point throwing out a piece that the chosen section band will be completely unable to play correctly, as it's then just a case of who got the nearest to the dots, and the actual music becomes a disinterested spectator.
 

tubaloopy

Member
Speaking as a player having won top contests on all of the chosen pieces my prediction would be that not one band in any of the sections will produce an anywhere near perfect performance of any of the pieces.
In fact I would go as far as to say, having heard the standard of performance in the Senior Trophy and Senior Cup in the last 4-5 years both as a player and conductor, that there will be some absolutely dire performances of both pieces in those sections, and also some even worse interpretations.
Contest music is very very tough also.
 

sop 1

Member
Speaking as a player having won top contests on all of the chosen pieces my prediction would be that not one band in any of the sections will produce an anywhere near perfect performance of any of the pieces.
In fact I would go as far as to say, having heard the standard of performance in the Senior Trophy and Senior Cup in the last 4-5 years both as a player and conductor, that there will be some absolutely dire performances of both pieces in those sections, and also some even worse interpretations.
Contest music is very very tough also.

Thats a bit harsh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:
 

sop 1

Member
Nope, absolutely true, as a player in last years GS and next years SC, and like Jon I've played all those pieces at a high level.

Yes i have too,but all those bands are and have worked really hard at working up the test pieces just for some random to say they were dire!!
Lets just hope you're bands dont play dire too,but im sure they wont!!!!!!!!
 

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