Registration Query...

EbEwan

Member
Which is odd, as it is listed as a dissolved company...unless someone has recently brought the name of course
 

IanHeard

Member
Mike,

the bulk of the cost of going to the finals is hotels and transport - since when did Morris control that? It's time to move on.

Yeah probably, but we in England move on with a totally neutered and increasingly irrelevant BBE.
The future for English banding looks bleak.
 
I'd lay money that BBE won't be here in 3 years. As they loose a foot hold in day to day banding they become irrelevant and therefore why does a band need to waste precious money being a member?
 

tubafran

Active Member
I'd lay money that BBE won't be here in 3 years. As they loose a foot hold in day to day banding they become irrelevant and therefore why does a band need to waste precious money being a member?

I'll take that bet. With their withdrawal from running a registry which was totally scuppered by the change to registration for the area/national contest and the likes of the Open, Spring Festival and other contests not using any registration card they are probably more relevant to day to day banding.

They are working on small networks of bands in specific regions to assist with shortage of players, funding, sharing of facilities. I attended a meeting that they arranged for ALL the bands in the Sheffield area and 10 bands were represented. I understand that they are looking to role this out to other areas throughout the country - it will take time.

The same week I also attended an Open Forum run by the Yorkshire Area Committee (there are 60 contesting bands in Yorkshire) less than 8 bands were represented at that meeting.
 

cockaigne

Member
I'll take that bet. With their withdrawal from running a registry which was totally scuppered by the change to registration for the area/national contest and the likes of the Open, Spring Festival and other contests not using any registration card they are probably more relevant to day to day banding.

I'm not sure if it's a case of syntax, but did you mean to assert that the Open and Spring Festival (which also comes under the Open Championship umbrella, incidentally) do not use registration cards? I'm pretty certain that they do, unless I've had another brain-fart/memory lapse.
 

cockaigne

Member
The question at issue here is one band participation in BBE- something that has been highlighted as a problem by various posters already, in this thread and elsewhere.

It's better to have an independent organisation, even if it no longer takes responsibility for player registration, which can act (as it should) as a gathering point for bands across the country, and represent their interests. This is what it should be, certainly - but for that to carry any weight, it does need support from the bands.

Even if BBE is "neutered", it could (at least potentially) still hold Kapitol et al to account - otherwise the whole Regional/National system would become entirely beholden to private/commercial interests, without any accountability to the bands which take part. A neutered BBE is less of a threat than a rampant Kapitol, surely - and potentially much more use.

Armchair critics, stand up and get involved, I say... Otherwise it's tantamount to staying at home on election day, and then complaining for the next five years about the council/MP/government which you didn't engage in the diplomatic process to elect (or otherwise).
 
It is far better to have an independent organisation and I will be sad the day (if) BBE goes. However the recent registry incident showed that even when the registry was closely tied to BBE and therefore BBE had more input to the everyman's banding year, bands/bandsperson didn't care for them and couldn't see how they benefit from BBE. Therefore we have to all intents already handed banding over to private/commercial interests and we'll just have to see what they, or more accurately he makes of it.

Unfortunately BBE can't hold anyone to account as it doesn't have the mandate of bands and judging from history private/commercial interests don't listen to them anyway.
 

WhatSharp?

Active Member
It is far better to have an independent organisation and I will be sad the day (if) BBE goes. However the recent registry incident showed that even when the registry was closely tied to BBE and therefore BBE had more input to the everyman's banding year, bands/bandsperson didn't care for them and couldn't see how they benefit from BBE. Therefore we have to all intents already handed banding over to private/commercial interests and we'll just have to see what they, or more accurately he makes of it.

Unfortunately BBE can't hold anyone to account as it doesn't have the mandate of bands and judging from history private/commercial interests don't listen to them anyway.

TBH I believe the BBE has just increased its relevance by stepping away from contesting and all the political baggage that goes with it. Now we have an organisation which can honestly say it represents all bands, rather than those that just wish to contest, and they can get on with the more serious issue of falling player numbers, falling audience numbers, helping bands with grants and red-tape. All the things it was supposed to be doing rather than setting up more contests for elite bands which were poorly attended.

It is rather sad to here words such as "handed banding over to private/commercial interests" as it gives the perception that contesting is the be-all and end-all and ( personally ) I feel that's partly why banding is in the state its in too much emphasis on contesting and not enough on playing to the public ( if we put as much preparation time into concerts as we we contests , and I admit this isn't all bands, then the public maybe more interested in coming along to listen.

Don't get me wrong I love a good contest as much as the next but it isn't the reason I play in brass bands and it isn't all there is. If all my band did was contest I would leave as it's simply a means for improvement, showing off the fruits of that improvement to the general public is what I enjoy far more. If Philip Morris wants to run the nationals then let him, if he wants to run the registry then let him. That's not "Banding" its a contest and there are a lot of bands who don't partake for whom the BBE/BfBB was of very little use. Hopefully now non-contesting bands will see that there may well be benefits to being members of BBE.
 
You're right there are two elements to banding and my comment regarding 'handing over' was aimed at the contesting element, not banding as a whole.
 

WhatSharp?

Active Member
You're right there are two elements to banding and my comment regarding 'handing over' was aimed at the contesting element, not banding as a whole.

I know ;) but was trying to make a fatuous point to put things into perspective. :)

I don't know Mr Morris personally and have never met him but I'm sure he's well aware that Bands can survive without contesting, but contests cant survive without bands, and he needs us more than we need him so needs to stay on our good side :D.

He can start by not charging bands £12 to go and listen to your own section at Cheltenham, net result was almost our entire band went off and did something else, no money for him, no money for the facilities at Cheltenham. A fiver and I would have stayed to listen more than that was just too much ( though doubt he's reading this ).
 
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Yep my friends where there and said they played to an empty hall and then en bloc left the building to find somewhere more socialible.

My little theory is that we'll move to small local contests of up to 10 bands run by bands, held at open air venues (weather permitting!) and personally I think this would be a good thing. There would be more contests through the year and being most likely at pubs etc... more exposure to the public who might not have been aware of hundreds of bandsmen piling into some cold hall on a dark autumn morning! This in turn might increase concert attendance and bring more players in? Pipe dreams perhaps but the theory sounds good!
 

WhatSharp?

Active Member
Yep my friends where there and said they played to an empty hall and then en bloc left the building to find somewhere more socialible.

My little theory is that we'll move to small local contests of up to 10 bands run by bands, held at open air venues (weather permitting!) and personally I think this would be a good thing. There would be more contests through the years and being most likely at pubs etc... more exposure to the public who might not have been aware of hundreds of bandsmen piling into some cold hall on a dark autumn morning! This in turn might increase concert attendance and bring more players in? Pipe dreams perhaps but the theory sounds good!

Sounds good to me. Personally I love the Butlins format, whole weekend can take the family good entertainment ( mostly lol ) and an entertainment contest for the top bands. The French Open format was fun too , march contest, set test followed by solo and own choice "entertainment" piece then an outdoor concert.

Years ago I recall taking part in numerous small contests run by local bands and associations, they seem to have died off though.
 

tubafran

Active Member
I'm not sure if it's a case of syntax, but did you mean to assert that the Open and Spring Festival (which also comes under the Open Championship umbrella, incidentally) do not use registration cards? I'm pretty certain that they do, unless I've had another brain-fart/memory lapse.

This from 4barsrest March 2013

"In order to register your players with us for all British Open Contests, individual player’s details must be entered correctly on the player information sheet provided.The sheet should be returned to the contest controller at least one week before the date of the contest. Any subsequent amendments, can be made prior to and on the day of the contest.
For the purpose of the contest, the Contest Controller will agree directly with each band the legitimacy within the contest rules of all individual participants entered onto the player information sheet.
On the contest day, each player is kindly required to bring with them a form of personal identification (driving licence or other form of photographic identification. Third party registration cards are acceptable as a means of personal identification only
 
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Accidental

Supporting Member
TBH I believe the BBE has just increased its relevance by stepping away from contesting and all the political baggage that goes with it. Now we have an organisation which can honestly say it represents all bands, rather than those that just wish to contest, and they can get on with the more serious issue of falling player numbers, falling audience numbers, helping bands with grants and red-tape. All the things it was supposed to be doing rather than setting up more contests for elite bands which were poorly attended.
Couldn't agree more Steve :clap:
BBE have so much more to offer bands outside of contesting - starting with the funding/grant application support and free CRB checks that are already in place, and ending who knows where.
The best way for BBE to develop in ways that keep them relevant and useful to as many bands as possible is for more bands to get involved and tell them what we want/need from them....... use it or lose it.
 

IanHeard

Member
As someone has already said, the future success of BBE is dependent on the strength of it`s mandate from its member bands, if that`s the case how many bands are going to join, knowing banding as I do I think they`ll struggle to get into three figures, I hope I`m wrong BTW.
The apparent success of the SBBA isn't because Scottish bands are more inclined than us English to support a national body, it`s because membership is a condition of entry to the contesting sphere over the border.
If Morris was switched on he would allow BBE to levy the 600 English bands when they enter the National and the resultant cash would allow us to imitate the SBBA and employ a small number of development officers for England, this small act of benevolence would do much to help English banding and probably protect Morris`s investment at the same time.
 

tubafran

Active Member
...If Morris was switched on he would allow BBE to levy the 600 English bands when they enter the National and the resultant cash would allow us to imitate the SBBA and employ a small number of development officers for England, this small act of benevolence would do much to help English banding and probably protect Morris`s investment at the same time.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't this the reason that the UKBBA failed? As well as the apparent intention of the BFBB to impose a mandatory membership of all competing bands in the National finals which lead to the problems at the BBBR?
 

Bayerd

Active Member
Is there any reason why bands are reluctant to use the help and support offered by BBE to strengthen their bands to give them a better chance of contest success?

Just a thought...
 

tubafran

Active Member
Is there any reason why bands are reluctant to use the help and support offered by BBE to strengthen their bands to give them a better chance of contest success?

Just a thought...

To contest it costs - we recently attended the National finals at a cost of £5,000.00 - the band paid for the coach, entrance and music purchase - circa £1,500.00 - members additional contributions and some sponsorship fundraising for the balance. That was an exceptional but the area is probably £800.00 each year (coach, entrance, music)

Tonight I will be attending a fundraising discussion meeting with bands in the Sheffield Brass Network, recently created by BBE for both contesting and non-contesting bands.
 

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