Regionals 2009: Championship Section Test Piece: Salute to Youth, Gilbert Vinter

Red Elvis

Active Member
Spent an hour on it last night as we had our first proper look at it .....well , I say an hour - we played for about ten minutes , the rest of the time was spent filling in dynamics etc and correcting errors grr!!
Do these firms not have proof readers ?
 
Do y'know . . .

Honestly, I hate to say it:

Does anyone else find that when they first get a testpiece out and start practicing it, they're not that keen, but then as you go on, you end up really liking it, and driving friends and family mad because you won't stop singing it?

This is the norm for me. I hated Macbeth with a passion right up until the last two days before the Scottish Open last year, then fell in love with it. Same with Isiah 40 and other various pieces.

BUT

I played Salute to Youth at Bugle Band contest in June, and never ever got that luvin' feelin'. I guess I kinda like the last movement, but the rest? Not all that struck to be honest.

So when I find out that it's the testpiece for the areas.....well, I wasn't that over the moon.

All Vinter lovers-please don't hate me! There's just something in this one, and I can't put my pinkie on it, but I just don't like it!

Here's hoping that I do fall in love with it......fingers crossed that it starts to happen in February and not 2 days before the contest, otherwise I shall be having a very miserable few rehearsals!

Have to say I agree.

I have pretty much grown to enjoy all the test pieces I've had to play but this one just doesn't do it for me. It's all rather bitty, never going anywhere in my opinion and how the 2nd movement can be "Romance" is beyond me.
 

agentorange

Member
and how the 2nd movement can be "Romance" is beyond me.


Is it because it's romance from the point of view of a youth rather than from the point of view of someone who's grown to know the true meaning of the word? :rolleyes:

Have to agree though, this one is not one of my favourites. Vinter wrote some superb stuff and (in my humble opinion) some pretty ordinary stuff. This is from the latter.
 

ian perks

Active Member
Well having listend to Area CD for 2009,a few times now
This as to be the best piece of them all by a very long way as for the rest
:hammer Saulte To Youth giving the rest of the Area pieces a good smack on the head:clap:
 

Anno Draconis

Well-Known Member
Well having listend to Area CD for 2009,a few times now
This as to be the best piece of them all by a very long way as for the rest
:hammer Saulte To Youth giving the rest of the Area pieces a good smack on the head:clap:

Thanks Ian! ;)

Me, Dan, Frank and Graham are having a whip round to buy you Foden's new CD with Prague on it, we think you'll love it. :p

(just kidding - you hope;))

In fairness I've always had a bit of a soft spot for Salute - the sheer exuberance of the last movement is quite infectious, but only if you can nail all the fingering and make it sound easy. The other thing to bear in mind is historical context; imagine how this sounded in 1961 when the state of the art in band testpieces was Le Roi d'Ys and Resurgam - both good, but not exactly forward looking.
 

ian perks

Active Member
Thanks Ian! ;)

buy you Foden's new CD with Prague on it, we think you'll love it. :p

(just kidding - you hope;))

In fairness I've always had a bit of a soft spot for Salute - the sheer exuberance of the last movement is quite infectious, but only if you can nail all the fingering and make it sound easy. The other thing to bear in mind is historical context; imagine how this sounded in 1961 when the state of the art in band testpieces was Le Roi d'Ys and Resurgam - both good, but not exactly forward looking.
Andy my mate;
Ive got a recording done by that great band of the mid 60's
C.W.S Manchester playing Salute To Youth.
Its a really great performance then and would still be something for the younger players today to hear to that great band with the likes of
Derrick Garsdie(Principle Cornet),Brian Evans(Soprano),Lyndon Baglin(Solo Euphonium),Gordon Higginbottom(Solo Horn),Ian Bray(Solo Trombone),not forgetting Alex Mortimer(Conductor).
Sadly i was not even born when the band Won the 2 national titles on Force Of Destiny &Belmont Variations but have managed since to get copies of both winning performances phew just sheer awsome playing.
Also having been conducted by a former member of that famous band from both Wins in 1962&1963 at my first senior band i joined in 1977, my debut with them was
NATIONAL FINALS 3RD SECTION 1977;(WALSALL METROPOLITAN BAND-now Staffordshire band)
AND WON,a day i will never for get in my banding days at all.
As for Prauge 5th November spings to mind LOL:hammer
 
3rd movement, percussion, sleigh bells??
Can't say I've heard any recording that has sleigh bells!!
Anyone want to confirm if this is correct?
It does appear on the stave where no other instrument has been used yet but on my old score it makes no identification as to what it is, but, the new parts say s/bells.

Thanks!;)
 

Gavin

Supporting Member
3rd movement, percussion, sleigh bells??
Can't say I've heard any recording that has sleigh bells!!
Anyone want to confirm if this is correct?
It does appear on the stave where no other instrument has been used yet but on my old score it makes no identification as to what it is, but, the new parts say s/bells.

Thanks!;)

I can confirm that it is jingles (or sleigh bells). There are many discrepancies between the score and part, both new and old. For example;

* The wood block rhythm in the first movement is wrong on the part but correct in the score
* At the end of the last movement (just before the 4/4), the score doesn't indicate that it's snare drum on the bottom space of the stave (the snare drum part then moves back up to the third space of the stave a couple of bars later!)

There are more, but I don't have them in front of me at the moment.

Hope this helps a little

Gavin
 

JR

Member
In fairness I've always had a bit of a soft spot for Salute - the sheer exuberance of the last movement is quite infectious, but only if you can nail all the fingering and make it sound easy. The other thing to bear in mind is historical context; imagine how this sounded in 1961 when the state of the art in band testpieces was Le Roi d'Ys and Resurgam - both good, but not exactly forward looking.

As far as I'm aware Salute to Youth got a good reception in 1961 at the Areas but must have sounded astoundingly different. Especially in high pitch and without percussion..
And don't forget they were still using old arrangements as late as 1968 (Beethoven 8) as area tests
Actually the CWS Manc recording worth listening to just to note how that style of playing has totally disappeared - excessive vibrato, exaggerated phrasing with lots of rubato, not much staggering of breathing etc - and can you imagine the last movt being taken as slowly as that today?
Alex Mortimer's interpretation of Vinter was generally pretty left field - I remember his Spectrum being very different.

John R
 

ISBBBb2

Member
You top league boys don't know how lucky you are having Vinters work to play and not the Pentacle piece the 1st section are bashing through!
 

Red Elvis

Active Member
I have to say I was a bit agnostic as far as "salute" was concerned on the first couple of playings. Its really growing on me now though.
 

ian perks

Active Member
Actually the CWS Manc recording worth listening to just to note how that style of playing has totally disappeared - excessive vibrato, exaggerated phrasing with lots of rubato, not much staggering of breathing etc - and can you imagine the last movt being taken as slowly as that today?
Alex Mortimer's interpretation of Vinter was generally pretty left field - I remember his Spectrum being very different.

John R
Like in a earlier post ive put ive got a record of that performance by CWS.MANCHESTER;
Its different i agree with you but when you think they were one of the top bands of that yera its a good performance and i very much doubt if it would have been betterd by many bands of that time;
With the likes of Garside,Evans, Baglin, Higginbottom.
On key seats not forgetting Ian Bray on Solo trombone & i think Malcom Holmes on Flugel.
Plus plenty of other good players in the band at the time.
 

ghost

Member
Andy my mate;
Ive got a recording done by that great band of the mid 60's
C.W.S Manchester playing Salute To Youth.
Its a really great performance then and would still be something for the younger players today to hear to that great band with the likes of
Derrick Garsdie(Principle Cornet),Brian Evans(Soprano),Lyndon Baglin(Solo Euphonium),Gordon Higginbottom(Solo Horn),Ian Bray(Solo Trombone),not forgetting Alex Mortimer(Conductor).

-----------------------------------------
Ahh! You are talking my language. I have a huge collection of CWS recordings - the live winning recording of Force of Destiny is as near perfect a performance that I can remember - and what a tempo! These days we are very lucky with instruments having improved so much.

I was lucky enough to study and play under Freddie Roberts in the 1970's. He was band master of Brighouse and Manchester CWS and worked for years with Alex Mortimer. Fred had taught Derek Garside from when he was a young boy. Also, I was lucky enough to sit, aged 12, on the bottom end of the front line when Fred got Derek down to play with us. I was so in awe as he played 3 air varies perfectly during the concert, that I couldn't play a note the whole evening. The width of his sound was breathtaking. Recently, I wrote to Chris Helme who was writing a piece about Derek and told him this story. Derek then called me and he remembered this incident very well - talk about a kid being star struck. That's what banding is all about.

Now, can someone help me? I want to book up for the finals at the RAH later this year. The 4bars rest site says it will be on 10th October whilst the Kapitol Productions says the following week. I want to book the Friday off work. Does anyone know what the date should be for certain?

I have tried to contact Kapitol but with no success. If they want to fill the RAH then perhaps some up front customer service would be a good idea!

If anyone knows the dates for certain, I would be very grateful. The problem is that if someone else books the actual Friday, I won't be able to go!

Many thanks
Greg
 

brassneck

Active Member
I've never heard the Manchester Co-op recording but it would be interesting to listen to. I've only found four recordings in my collection ... Ever Ready (with Jim Shepherd as top man), Brighouse, Dyke and Fairey.
 

Bryan_sop

Active Member
Not much of an errata! There are at least 3 wrong notes in the Sop part that aren't even mentioned! Who know's what's missing elsewhere?!
 

HBB

Active Member
Missing the majority of the errors on all the horn parts too - there are wrong rhythms, notes and dynamics everywhere!
 

jockinafrock

Active Member
Curious to see how the adjudications will fare if someone is picked up for playing something incorrectly and it wasn't on the errata notification...:rolleyes:
 

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