Re:B & R concert - Does this....

Is the banding world too backward looking?


  • Total voters
    26

Andy_Euph

Active Member
...show the narrowmindedness of our institution and how unwilling to welcome change the band world is?

Personally I think its very sad when people are unwilling to accept "new" music (Masquerade is 10 years old!). Music in general when its written is always different and breaking new ground, composers such as Bach, Mozart, Beethoven all found it difficult to have some music accepted in there lifetime!

In my eyes we need to become more open about the type of music we play, and the music world in general, people complain when banders are looked down on by orchestral players as part of the "cloth cap" image, but we do nothing to change there way of thinking, we become more backward and inward looking. I know that its important to remember our heritage, but our future musn't be sacrificed for this!

I think we have to realise that these are no longer the haydays of the mid 20century but its the 21st century! and we need to move forward before we get stuck to far in the past and become extinct :?

P.S. This is not a dig at anyone or owt like that, just an opinion of what seems to be happening :)
 

WoodenFlugel

Moderator
Staff member
I don't think the movement is backward looking. But maybe the greater public's perception of what we're about is. I'm sure the success of pieces like the Flor*l D*nce and Gr*undf*rce don't do a lot to help. :?
 

HBB

Active Member
WoodenFlugel said:
I don't think the movement is backward looking. But maybe the greater public's perception of what we're about is. I'm sure the success of pieces like the Flor*l D*nce and Gr*undf*rce don't do a lot to help. :?

Don't mention that piece!!! That, Hornet's Nest and Lament of the Dandilions are horrible!! The TV show doesn't play the horrid linking passages!!
 

Cornetto

Member
Are you kidding??!!

The British Brass Band movement is killing itself!! They are the most inward looking backward looking stubborn minded establishment that I have encountered. Noone seems to want to listen to us apart from those who have been brought up listening to it, and that number is rapidly decreasing.

Not just the audiences that are in decline, no young players are coming through either. Even a band like Faireys is struggling to find decent young players in to fill the seats, they've just about soaked up all the young talent they can find so far, and theres not much more around.

Needs to be a massive change, but my feeling is bands will be too stubborn to take it on, and the majority will keep on kidding themselves.
 
Cornetto said:
Are you kidding??!!


Not just the audiences that are in decline, no young players are coming through either. Even a band like Faireys is struggling to find decent young players in to fill the seats, they've just about soaked up all the young talent they can find so far, and theres not much more around.

Are you kidding?!!! Is it perhaps possible that your band is finding it difficult to fill the seats with young players, not due to the lack of young players, but due to the lack of young players wanting to play for your band?! In all fairness, I think that there are many young players coming 'through the ranks' as it were!!!

Just to add to the opic of conversation -

The British brass band movement, not too disimilar to the whole british music scene, is a backward thinking, conservative movement. Perhaps some young blood in places where it counts, could help this situation .
 

Verbal Kint

New Member
Woah!!! Hold your horses Pete, what young players that you know would give up an opportunity to play in top class banding like Fairies or indeed Brighouse. Most of us can only dream of being part of a concert with such repertoire as Masquerade and Aubade, even if the audience did walk out. My feeling is that the movement is in a state of change - there are 'younger' high profile people trying to move us forward, but too often get caught up trying to please the 'oldies' at the same time. Politics, politics, eh?
 

Okiedokie of Oz

Active Member
I agree that people tend to favour the old stuff.

The folliwing is a transcript of today's ABC Classic FM playlist. I bring this up as evidence to a general trend of "sticking to the classics" worldwide.

ABC Classic FM said:
5.30am CLIVE ROBERTSON
Music selected by Felix Hayman
CHOPINIANA
Chopin Étude and Nocturne - Jean Yves Thibaudet, Chopin's Broadwood piano 1848
Decca 466 357-2 5'
Orefice Chopin: Grand Aria , Entr'acte and 'Sera ineffabile' - Ferrucio Tagliavini and Pia Tessinari; San Francisco Opera
Naxos 8.110144 12'
Chopin 4 Mazurkas - Arthur Schoonderwoerd, Pleyel piano 1836
Alpha 040 9'

6.05am
Mozart Symphony No.40: Allegro - Academy of Ancient Music
Decca 452 496-2 7'
Haydn Piano Trio No.33: Presto - Brahms Trio Vienna
Berlin 0032512BC 4'
'Il Fasolo' Choro e Ballo di tre zoppi - Le Poème Harmonique
Alpha 023 4'
Attaignant 2 Basses danses - Peter Blanchette, archguitar; The Virtual Consort
Dorian DOR 93178 5'
Elizabeth Henshaw Spiritus Sanctus - Eve Vocal Trio; ensemble
www.evevocaltrio.com.au 5'
Grieg Morning Mood; Solvieg's Song - Roger Woodward, p
Warner 4508871602 8'
Fauré Requiem: Pie Jesu - Kathleen Battle, s; orchestra / Robert Sadin
Sony SK 89464 3'
Raff Cavatina and Scherzino - Yukio Noshino, v; Philharmonia Orchestra / Yondani Butt
ASV CD DCA 1000 9'

7.05am
Scarlatti Sonata in B, Kk262 - Beatrice Long, p
Naxos 8.553846 4'
Anon Alla cazza; La bella Franceschina - The King's Singers
EMI 585713 2 3'
Weber Rondo, op.35b - Laurence Perkins, bn; Manchester Camerata
Hyperion CDA 67288 6'
Haydn Quartet in D: Allegro - Mosaïques Quartet
Astrée E 8802 8'
R Strauss Dance Suite: Courante; Carillon - Academy of St Martin in the Fields / Sir Neville Marriner
Philips 446 696-2 7'
Pärt In Our Garden: Andantino - Ellerhein Girls' Choir; Estonian National Philharmonic
Virgin 545630 2 4'
Ravel Le tombeau de Couperin: Minuet; Toccata - Robert Casedesus, p
Sony MH2K 63316 6'
Trad Hungary 2 Dances - Sydney Wind Quintet
ABC Classic FM recording 2'

8.05am
Vivaldi 4 Seasons: Winter - Giuliano Carmignola, baroque v; Venice Baroque Orchestra
Sony SK 51352 8'
Borodin Quartet No.2: Scherzo - The Emerson Quartet
DG 471 567-2 5'
Sinding Rustle of Spring - Philip Martin, p
Hyperion CDA 67379 3'
Debussy En bateau - Amsterdam Guitar Trio
BMG RD 87800 3'
Kreisler Nicolette; Polchinelle - Leonidas Kavakos, v; Peter Nagy, p
BIS CD 1196 4'
Popper Gavotte, op.67; 'Once in Fairer Days' - Maria Kleigel, vc; Nicolaus Esterházy Sinfonia
Naxos 8.554657 6'
Tallis Spem in Allium - Magnificat
Linn CKD 233 10'
Mulet Rose Window - Jane Parker-Smith, organ of St. Martin, Memmingen
Avie AV 0034 5'
Copland Mexican Landscape - LA Guitar Quartet
Telarc CD 80593 3'

9.05am BOB MAYNARD
R Strauss Also sprach Zarathustra, op.30 - Chicago Symphony Orchestra / Pierre Boulez
DG 457 649-2 33'
John Carmichael Fantasy Sonata - Roger Armstrong, f; John Carmichael, p
ABC Classics 476 156-2 16'

10.05am
Margaret introduces her special guest
Dr. Jane Roscoe (repeat)
Adams The Death of Klinghoffer: Day Chorus - London Opera Chorus; Lyon Opera Orchestra / Kent Nagano
Elektra Nonesuch 7559-79281 4'
Glass The Thin Blue Line: Prologue - soundtrack recording
"The Thin Blue Line" Elektra/Nonesuch 979 209-2 4'
Nyman The Piano: A Wild and Distant Shore - soundtrack recording
"The Piano" Virgin 7 88274 2 6'
Monk Thelonious - The Thelonious Monk Orchestra
"Thelonious Monk at Town Hall" Riverside OJCCD-135-2 3'
Morricone The Good the Bad and the Ugly - Hugo Montenegro and his orchestra
RCA BPCD 5094 3'
Hear today's and recent interviews at abc.net.au/classic/throsby
Produced by Mark Hastings

11.05am
NET CLASSICS
Our internet-based weekday request program. Share your favourite classics with others.
Theme: Bach Two-part Invention No.14 in B flat, BWV785 - Angela Hewitt, p
Hyperion CDA 66746 1'
Saint-Georges Violin Concerto in C, op.5/1 - Jean-Jacques Kantorow, v; Bernard Thomas Chamber Orchestra
Arion ARN 68093 19'
Tchaikovsky None but the Lonely Heart, op.6/6 - Dmitri Hvorostovsky, br; Oleg Boshniakovich, p
Philips 432 119-2 3'
Jones arr Hazell We'll Keep a Welcome - Bryn Terfel, b-br; Black Mountain Chorus; Risca Male Choir; Welsh National Opera Orchestra / Gareth Jones
DG 463 593-2 3'
Richter Sinfonia a quattro in C 'La melodia germanica' - New Dutch Academy Chamber Orchestra / Simon Murphy
PentaTone PTC 5186 029 19'
Lodge your request at our website:
abc.net.au/classic/netclassics

12.05pm MALCOLM PATTERSON
Music selected by Charles Southwood
Mahler The Youth's Magic Horn: Rhine Legend - Yvonne Minton, ms; Chicago Symphony Orchestra / Sir Georg Solti
ABC 470 241-2 3'
Copland Music for Movies: Threshing Machines - New Philharmonia Orchestra / Aaron Copland
Sony SM3K 46559 3'
Tchaikovsky The Seasons: July, Song of the Reapers - Antonín Kubalek, p
Dorian DOR-90102 2'
Vogler Les rendez-vous de chasse ou Les vendanges interrompues par les chasseurs - Darmstädter Hofkappelle / Wolfgang Seeliger
Christophorus CHR 77220 21'
Schumann Concert Piece in F for four horns and orchestra, op.86 - Philharmonia Orchestra / Christian Tielemann
DG 453 482-2 19'

1.00pm SYDNEY SYMPHONY

Birgit Remmert, contralto
Sydney Children's Choir
Women's Voices of the Sydney Philharmonia Choirs
Edo de Waart, conductor
Mahler Symphony No.3 in D minor 1hr38'
Recorded by ABC Classic FM in the Sydney Town Hall last year
Sound engineer: Yossi Gabbay
Producer: Malcolm Batty

Miriam Hyde Clarinet Sonata in F minor - Nigel Westlake, cl; David Bollard, p
Tall Poppies TP 004 16'

2.45pm SHORT STORY
Like A Fish Out Of Water
By Tim Gilman-Sevcik
From "Banquet of the Mind", published by Random House.
A reflection on a Christmas spent in Prague in this story, which first appeared in The Guardian Weekly. Tim Gilman-Sevcik lives in New York and contributes to The Guardian newspaper in London, as well as other publications. He is a contemporary artist who has held solo exhibitions in Prague and participated in group exhibitions in New York and Europe.
Read by Justin Monjo
Produced for the ABC by Anne Wynter

3.00pm ON THE TRACK
Music selected by Derek Jones
Mozart arr Schwenke Serenade No.10 in B flat, K361: Adagio - Diana Doherty, ob; Sinfonia Australis
ABC 980 046 3 5'
Finzi Clarinet Concerto - Michael Collins, cl; City of London Sinfonia / Richard Hickox
Virgin VC7 90718 2 28'
Trad arr Rutter Down by the Sally Gardens - The Cambridge Singers; City of London Sinfonia / John Rutter
Collegium COLCD 120 3'
Brahms Variations on a Theme by Haydn, op.56a - Scottish Chamber Orchestra / Sir Charles Mackerras
Telarc CD 80450 17'

4.05pm DRIVE WITH JULIE HOWARD
Music for the end of the working day, selected by Ivan Lloyd and Jo Mason
Vivaldi Concerto in D 'Priest on the Run': Third Movement - Red Priest
Dorian DOR-93208 3'
Orff Carmina Burana: Fortune plango vulnera - Cantillation; Synergy Percussion; Australian Virtuosi / Antony Walker
ABC Classics 472 481-2 3'
Schubert Military March No.1 in D, op.51 (D733) - Daniel Barenboim & Radu Lupu, p
Teldec 0630-17146-2 5'
Mores Taquito militar - Alfredo Marcucci, acc; Ensemble Piacevole
Channel Classics CCS 17298 3'
Trad The Young Old Warrior - R. Carlos Nakai, f
Canyon CR-609 (Emergence) 3'
Sheremetiev Rejoice Now Heavenly Powers - Chorovaya Akademia / Alexander Sedov
RCA 09026 68055 2 (Ancient Echoes) 4'
Dvořák Cypresses: There Stands an Ancient Rock; Nature is Held in Light Sleep - The Lindsays
ASV CD DCS 446 4'
Brahms Piano Concerto No.2 in B flat: Fourth Movement - Stephen Hough, p; BBC Symphony Orchestra / Andrew Davis
Virgin 5 61412 2 10'
Du Berry/David Lewis Berceuse Insomniaque (Attraction) - Paris Combo
Polydor 589 392-2 3'
Abercrombie Jack and Betty - John Abercrombie, g; Mark Feldman, v; Marc Johnson, db; Joey Baron, dr
ECM 1846 (Class Trip) 4'
Grieg Peer Gynt Suite No.1: Anitra's Dance; In the Hall of the Mountain King - Academy of St. Martin in the Fields / Sir Neville Marriner
Hänssler CD 98.995 6'

5.05pm
Debussy/Tomita The Girl with the Flaxen Hair (Snowflakes Are Dancing) - Isao Tomita, syn
RCA 14587 3'
Buxtehude Sonata No.3 in G: Vivace - Stylus Phantastigas
Alpha 047 3'
Mozart Idomeneo, Act I: March & Chorus `May Neptune be Honoured' (Opera in English Series) - Orchestra and Chorus of Opera North / David Parry
Chandos CHAN 3103(2) 4'
Garcia-Fons Entremundo (Entremundo) - Renaud Garcia-Fons Ensemble
Enja ENJ-9464-2 4'
New Market Music
Ibrahim African Magic: Blue Bolero (Ballads: The World - From the Enja World of Jazz) - Abdullah Ibrahim Trio
Enja ENJ-9500-2 4'
Binge Watermill (Felix and Me) - Diana Doherty, ob; Sinfonia Australis / Mark Summerbell
ABC 476 176-2 4'
Karlowicz Violin Concerto in A: Vivace assai - Tasmin Little, v; BBC Scottish Orchestra / Martyn Brabbins
Hyperion CDA67389 7'
Korngold Piano Sonata No.1 in D minor: Scherzo - Geoffrey Tozer, p
Chandos CHAN 9389 4'
SPOTLIGHT: Island Hopping
Peter Mumme Philip Island: Penguins - Peter Mumme, kb & natural sounds
Integrated Circus Productions 7'
Rota/Peter Dasent Amacord: Le `Manne' di Primavera (Brava Nino Rota) - The Umbrellas
Mana Records 20011 4'
Schulhoff Divertissement for Oboe, Clarinet & Bassoon: Overture - Novak Trio
Supraphon 11 2170-2 2'

6.05pm
Galliano Laurita - Richard Galliano & ensemble
Dreyfus FDM 36616-2 3'
Verdi La traviata: Parigi, o cara, noi lasceremo (Love Moods) - Ileana Cotrubas, s; Plácido Domingo, t; Bavarian State Orchestra / Carlos Kleiber
DG 474 802-2 3'
Arensky Symphony No.1 in B minor: Allegro giocoso - Russian State Symphony Orchestra / Valeri Polyansky
Chandos CHAN 10086 7'
Schubert Trout Quintet: Scherzo - Beaux Arts Trio & Friends
PentaTone PTC 5186 121 4'
Beethoven Moonlight Sonata (Shapes) - Dominic Miller, g; orchestra
Decca 475 613-2 4'
Morricone I Girasoli (Focus) - Dulce Pontes, voc; orchestra / Ennio Morricone
Forum 980 829-2 3'
Chopin Waltz, op.34/3 `Valse brillante' - Sergei Rachmaninov, pr
Telarc CD-80629 3'
Smith The Tempest: Overture - Capella Savaria Baroque Orchestra / Mary Terey-Smith
Dorian DOR-93251 8'
DAVID CHESWORTH
David Chesworth The Two Executioners: Wonderful Life; A Moment of Change (Wicked Voice) - Bernadette Robinson, Tracy Bourne and Deanne Flatley, s; John McCall kb; Peter Neville, per; Robert Jackson, sax
ABC 456 676-2 4'
Shostakovich Human Comedy: Gavotte & Trio - Rustem Hayroudinoff, p
Chandos CHAN 9907 3'
Tchaikovsky Swan Lake: Mazurka - Bolshoi Symphony Orchestra / Alexander Lazarev
Erato 2292-45963-2 5'

7.05pm DAMIEN BEAUMONT
NEW RELEASES
A sampling of the very latest in new releases from Australia and overseas, including CD of the Week
Produced by Phil Carrick

8.00pm IN PERFORMANCE
ORCHESTRE DE PARIS
Vadim Repin, violin
Michael Gielen, conductor
Varèse Ionisation (1933) 6'
Haydn Symphony No.78 in C minor 19'
Beethoven Violin Concerto in D, op.61 45'
Varèse Amériques (1926) 25'
Courtesy of Radio France

2003 SCHWETZINGEN FESTIVAL
Christian Gerhaher, baritone
Gerold Huber, piano
Schumann Eichendorff Lieder:
Der frohe Wandersmann, op.77/1 2'
Der Schatzgräber, op.45/1 2'
Frühlingsfahrt, op.45/2 3'
Der Einsiedler, op.83/3 4'
Schumann Liederkreis, op.39 24'
Courtesy of South West German Radio, Stuttgart

10.30pm
A late night journey through early and post-classical music

12.30am MUSIC OVERNIGHT WITH MALCOLM PATTERSON
Albéniz Triana - WA Symphony Orchestra / Jorge Mester
ABC 438 198-2 5'
12.36am
Lange-Müller In the Alhambra, op.3 - Danish National Radio Symphony Orchestra / Michael Schwønwandt
Marco Polo 8.224 109 30'
1.07am
R Strauss Der Rosenkavalier: Waltzes - Gil Shaham, v; Akira Aguchi, p
DG 447 640-2 9'
1.16am
R Strauss Der Rosenkavalier: Suite - Vienna Philharmonic / André Previn
DG 437 790-2 22'
1.38am
Elgar Symphony No.2, op.63 - Philharmonia / Bernard Haitinck
EMI 5 69761-2 59'
2.38am
Villa Lobos Preludes - Eduardo Fernandez, g
Decca 414 616-2 20'
3.00am
Philip Bracanin Guitar Concerto - Karin Schaupp, g; Queensland Symphony Orchestra / Ronald Spiegelman
ABC 446 476-2 23'
3.20am
Michael Easton Concerto on Australian Themes; An Australian in Paris - Len Vorster, p; State Orchestra of Victoria / Brett Kelly
Naxos 8.554 368 27'
3.49am
Helweg America Fantasy: Tribute to Leonard Bernstein - Safri Percussion Duo, with Slovak Piano Duo
Chandos 9398 21'
4.10am
Saint-Saëns Cello Concerto, op.33 - Julian Lloyd-Webber, vc; English Chamber Orchestra / Jan Pascal Tortelier
Philips 432 084-2 18'
4.30am
Scriabin Preludes - Gordon Fergus-Thompson, p
ASV DCA 1096 29'

5.05am
Dvořák Slavonic Dance, op.72/2 - Itzhak Perlman, v; Boston Symphony Orchestra
Gershwin Prelude No.1 - Jeffrey Kahane, p
Williams American Collection: Theme - orchestra / John Williams
Meyer 1B - Ed Meyer, bs; Mark O, v
Rachmaninov Vocalise - Bobby McFerrin, voc
Piazzolla Libertango - Nestor Marconi, bandoneon with others- Yo-Yo Ma, vc; and above friends
Sony 89667 24'

While it's a fairly varied program, there is little doubt that the emphasis is placed on the"Great" composers. but there is a reason these guys are so well thought of. In their day, they had high exposure. Today, new composers have to compete against other entertainment arenas such as TV and movies. So few composers get the attention and recognition that now makes Beethoven's name synonymous with good music (in some people's minds).

there is nothing we can do about it. It's evolution. brass bands are a leftover from the pre-television days. However, i hope we don't go the way of the dodo. We gotta fight the good fight, and force ourselves to evolve into a genre that keeps them coming in.
 

IckleSop

Active Member
Cornetto said:
Are you kidding??!!

The British Brass Band movement is killing itself!! They are the most inward looking backward looking stubborn minded establishment that I have encountered. Noone seems to want to listen to us apart from those who have been brought up listening to it, and that number is rapidly decreasing.

Not just the audiences that are in decline, no young players are coming through either. Even a band like Faireys is struggling to find decent young players in to fill the seats, they've just about soaked up all the young talent they can find so far, and theres not much more around.

Needs to be a massive change, but my feeling is bands will be too stubborn to take it on, and the majority will keep on kidding themselves.


Nick,

You know that youth bands are full of young talent, the range of talent is scary so much so the top players out there now better be watching themselves!
i agree that the audiences are on a decline, yet most bands play at places like the bridgewater hall or some sort of theatre its hardly making it acessable to the wider audiences. Mostly the style of music doesnt affect the people watching seeing as thou most people do not know what a band is playing when going to watch.
 

Paige

Member
i agree majorly with pete meechan and icklesop. there is loads of young talent about, this is not sayin that all of them want to play for faireys, thats a slightly arrogent perspective i think. :shock:
 

johnflugel

Active Member
I think the main problem is as a movement, our players don't support each other.

Let's be honest here, how many people on here regularly go see a band concert? i.e seeing another band every 4-8 weeks or so. I would suggest the vast majority of registered players in this country do not. Let's be honest, many players 30+ (who are the next generation of banders) would rather in be in a pub or out on the town...there is no problem with this of course but then the finger cannot be pointed at the public for showing lack of interest. Nor can we moan we we turn up to do a job with a band and 50%+ of the seats are empty. I helped promote a concert on Saturday night with YBS. Now we virtually filled that hall but in 30 years 80% of that audience will probably not be alive..sounds extreme but it's true. Discounting the band themselves and the choir who contriubted a few songs, there were probably about 15 people there under the age of 30. Not even the very best band in the world at present could attract younger players to watch, let alone the general non-banding public.

Unless we go to see concerts ourselves and break the stereo type of 60+ age group attending, then we are digging our own grave in reality. It's like I have said on another thread, how can be expect the public to be interested and take us seriously when we do not ourselves?
 
Verbal Kint said:
Woah!!! Hold your horses Pete, what young players that you know would give up an opportunity to play in top class banding like Fairies or indeed Brighouse. Most of us can only dream of being part of a concert with such repertoire as Masquerade and Aubade, even if the audience did walk out. My feeling is that the movement is in a state of change - there are 'younger' high profile people trying to move us forward, but too often get caught up trying to please the 'oldies' at the same time. Politics, politics, eh?

Ah, Verbal- or should that be Keyser Soze? What I trying to say was that it is quite possible that not all young players would want to play for one band.

I'm sure that many of the young players that I know would jump at the oppurtunity to play for a band such as Dyke or one of he other 'name bands'.
 

Andy_Euph

Active Member
Pete Meechan said:
Verbal Kint said:
Woah!!! Hold your horses Pete, what young players that you know would give up an opportunity to play in top class banding like Fairies or indeed Brighouse. Most of us can only dream of being part of a concert with such repertoire as Masquerade and Aubade, even if the audience did walk out. My feeling is that the movement is in a state of change - there are 'younger' high profile people trying to move us forward, but too often get caught up trying to please the 'oldies' at the same time. Politics, politics, eh?

Ah, Verbal- or should that be Keyser Soze? What I trying to say was that it is quite possible that not all young players would want to play for one band.

I'm sure that many of the young players that I know would jump at the oppurtunity to play for a band such as Dyke or one of he other 'name bands'.

I totally agree Pete, there are some fantastic players out there but personally if I was one of them I would want to stay away from bands like Fairies, as the attitude seems to be all wrong, like a we are better than you and win at all costs attitude...playing should be fun and for the majority of people, a hobby!
 

nickjones

Active Member
Well the Idea of a competition is to Win....
you dont go there just to make up the numbers..as per usual you have to look at a sporting thought...second is nothing , winning is everything , yes you are not going to win all the time , but the time , effort , rehersals you would like something at the end of it all, you dont enter the FA Cup just to pick up a runners up medal.
there are hundreds of young players out there , who play for Britains top youth bands and groups , I think the Bands need the players more than the players need the bands ( politics , threat of the sack because of lack of experience etc.)
It's funny but I would hazzard a guess here but all the bands who seem to struggle for players at the moment , do not have a recognised youth band or youth policy.
you have to take your hat off to bands like Sellers , Dobross and other bands who are trying to safeguard the future...
 
johnflugel said:
I think the main problem is as a movement, our players don't support each other.

Let's be honest here, how many people on here regularly go see a band concert? i.e seeing another band every 4-8 weeks or so. I would suggest the vast majority of registered players in this country do not. Let's be honest, many players 30+ (who are the next generation of banders) would rather in be in a pub or out on the town...there is no problem with this of course but then the finger cannot be pointed at the public for showing lack of interest. Nor can we moan we we turn up to do a job with a band and 50%+ of the seats are empty. I helped promote a concert on Saturday night with YBS. Now we virtually filled that hall but in 30 years 80% of that audience will probably not be alive..sounds extreme but it's true. Discounting the band themselves and the choir who contriubted a few songs, there were probably about 15 people there under the age of 30. Not even the very best band in the world at present could attract younger players to watch, let alone the general non-banding public.

Unless we go to see concerts ourselves and break the stereo type of 60+ age group attending, then we are digging our own grave in reality. It's like I have said on another thread, how can be expect the public to be interested and take us seriously when we do not ourselves?


I think you've hit the nail on the head there. I have to admit to going to very few brass band or general live music concerts but mostly due to lack of time rather than the enjoyment factor.

Also, whilst I personally applaude B&R for what they tried to do at the weekend, I think the top bands have a certain reponsibility to protect the kind of audiences that lower section bands need to survive. As someone playing at the B&R concert said on the other thread, he'd have much rather have been playing to a handful of people wanting to hear their programme rather than a sell-out crowd disappointed with what they were being given. We have to give the audience what they want or risk losing them. The 'Blue Rinse Brigade' wanting to hear the Floral Dance is the bread and butter of a lot of bands outside of the big names. While we are trying to alter our programmes to include less lollipops and include a few larger-scale pieces (not by B&R standards of course :wink: ), we will still endeavour to keep the programme light. There is plenty of decent music out there (original or arrangement) for audiences to enjoy without having to resort to the likes of the Floral Dance. Surely by introducing audiences to new works of any description, we are doing something for the progression of the movement?

It's all about telling the punters what they are going to get and letting them make an informed decision before they buy tickets. That way B&R would get to play contemporary music to a receptive audience and people who don't fancy their programme can go elsewhere and find something suitable. The playing might not be to the same standard but if they know what they're getting, there can be no complaints. I'd settle for playing to a contented audience everytime (preferably a big one :D )

P.S. Sorry to single out B&R and the Floral Dance...just examples to make my point 8)
 

fartycat

Member
Andy_Euph said:
Personally I think its very sad when people are unwilling to accept "new" music (Masquerade is 10 years old!). Music in general when its written is always different and breaking new ground, composers such as Bach, Mozart, Beethoven all found it difficult to have some music accepted in there lifetime!

I just heard an interesting programme on R4 about choral societies (no honest, keep reading!). I think I'm quoting right - 170 new pieces were commissioned by amateur choral groups in the UK last year. How many new commissions did bands give out?
 

nickjones

Active Member
there is loads of financial help out there from arts councils for commissioned works , they are especially receptive if it not a test piece...
 

Okiedokie of Oz

Active Member
I am in complete disagreement on a personal level with the remark that we do not support each other.

1) We all discuss our issues here and help each other out. Is this not support?
2) We all make efforts to attend many contests whether we're playing or watching. Is this not support?
3) We are all passionate enough about our hobby that we tell anyone who'll listen about how good brass bands are, and if they are a musician from another group, we'll try to bring them around. this adds potential recruits to bands, whether they be our band or elsewhere's. Isthis not support?

Some people do not have the resources to attend every concert. Whether the reasons be personal, medical, financial, transportational, there'll always be something to ruin a 100% track record.

OK, so some of us may not be as active in their support as others. But we do try.

I do agree witht he comment about playing to 1/2 a crowd of happy people, over a packed crowd of disappointed people. We are principally entertainers. Our job is to inspire, entertain, MAKE THE AUDIENCE HAPPY!! While a band of Brighouse's calibre is capable of playing music of a different standard, who says the music has to all be hard core? At some stage we have to draw the line between what we want to play (exciting runs, and quadruple tongueing and so forth) and what we're wanted to play. We can toe the line, or jump over briefly, but like fishing, every so often you have to let the fish think it's won.

I still say B&R had a good idea with their concert. I still say that that type of music should be played. I jst feel that perhaps the feature wall shouldn't be so bright-a yellow, but mixed with something else. (Sorry, building a house...the metaphor relates to me)
 

PeterBale

Moderator
Staff member
Okiedokie of Oz said:
I am in complete disagreement on a personal level with the remark that we do not support each other.

1) We all discuss our issues here and help each other out. Is this not support?
2) We all make efforts to attend many contests whether we're playing or watching. Is this not support?
3) We are all passionate enough about our hobby that we tell anyone who'll listen about how good brass bands are, and if they are a musician from another group, we'll try to bring them around. this adds potential recruits to bands, whether they be our band or elsewhere's. Isthis not support?

As has been said before, this is an area where, at least in the UK, we do not seem to score very highly in comparison with our overseas comrades. At the Europeans, many of the players were to be found in the hall listening to and then cheering their rivals on the day. Even in a concert situation where new repertoire is being presented, there does not tend to be a lot of support from bandsmen, and what better opportunity could there be not only to go along yourself but also to take a non-banding friend along so they can see what bands can do?

One of the encouraging things about the recent concerts I've attended at the RCM and the RAM in London, has been that the audiences, although not huge, have included a cross-section of musicians from across the board, many of whom admitted to having been favourably impressed by what they heard.

Another way to interest more of the "serious" musical public is to try to encourage more contemporary composers to write for band, even if this involves a financial outlay. You could then present works by composers we know well, such as Philips Sparke and Wilby alongside a premiere by MacMillan, Maxwell Davies or Hoddinott, whose names would draw an audience. (I recall attending the premier of a Maxwell Davies piece by the English Brass Ensemble in a lunchtime concert, and it drew a large number of non-brass enthusiasts in just this way).
 

cornetchap

Member
I've not read through all the responses on this subject so forgive me if I go over something that someone else has already said, but...

the comments I read on the thread about B&R's concert made statements about the ignorance of the people who stood up and walked out of the concert and that they were "closed" to new music.

Whilst I agree that walking out in the middle of a piece and/or talking through a piece is not only ignorant but downright rude, may I also suggest that those who showed disapproval at the concert were not ignorant or closed. They simply made an informed decision about what they found musically acceptable in a brass band concert. After all, they paid money and turned up to listen. Having listened they found the music didn't suit them and left. Next time they see such a concert advertised they are unlikely to go.

This could be applied to films, books, plays, whatever. I recently read part of a book by Charlie Higson. I stopped reading it when I got to a point that didn't agree with me and will not read another Higson book as a result. That's an informed choice that I've made myself.

How many of you might look at a brass band concert programme and say, "Humph, I'm not going to that they're just churning out the same old rubbish"? Is this not displaying a similar attitude to those who found they disliked pieces like Audabe?

Composers will always find people who like their music and those that don't, same as writers, playwrites and artists. Don't knock people for not liking something that you do and voting with their feet. (Only knock them if they do it inappropriately :) )
 
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