PROMOTION AND RELAGATION YORKSHIRE AREA
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My understanding is that the bands that have been promoted or relegated have the right to appeal against the decision made. If they are successful in their appeal then they will stay in their current sections.
If the relegated bands appeal successfully, and the promoted bands don't appeal, the Championship section could be quite large next year...
If any of the current First section bands appeal against promotion succesfully, the offer is not then made to the next band on the rankings...
If the relegated bands appeal successfully, and the promoted bands don't appeal, the Championship section could be quite large next year...
If any of the current First section bands appeal against promotion succesfully, the offer is not then made to the next band on the rankings...
yorkie19
Active Member
Hmm. I sense a dodgy subject here. Let me be the first to stick my head in the lion's mouth!
Any of the bands in the Yorkshire region that have been promoted or relegated have the right to appeal against aforementioned promotion or relegation.
For example, Chapletown or Knottingley may choose to appeal because this was their first year in the top section. Equally, a band might choose to appeal to stay down because they feel they are not ready to move up a section.
Sam
Any of the bands in the Yorkshire region that have been promoted or relegated have the right to appeal against aforementioned promotion or relegation.
For example, Chapletown or Knottingley may choose to appeal because this was their first year in the top section. Equally, a band might choose to appeal to stay down because they feel they are not ready to move up a section.
Sam
Sam
You are right - all bands absolutely have the right to appeal. There is nothing in the rules about bands having a "bye" when they compete in a higher section for the first time, although this is a popularly held misconception which has been discussed at length before. However, the area committees have, in the past, been disposed to look favourably on those bands which have made the step up and have struggled in their first year. As has been pointed out elsewhere, some of these bands have then subsequently cemented their position well.
So - we have to wait and see what the bands in question decide to do, and how the Yorkshire Regional Committee decides to respond.
Dave - the lists were sent to band secretaries a few weeks ago.
Cheers
You are right - all bands absolutely have the right to appeal. There is nothing in the rules about bands having a "bye" when they compete in a higher section for the first time, although this is a popularly held misconception which has been discussed at length before. However, the area committees have, in the past, been disposed to look favourably on those bands which have made the step up and have struggled in their first year. As has been pointed out elsewhere, some of these bands have then subsequently cemented their position well.
So - we have to wait and see what the bands in question decide to do, and how the Yorkshire Regional Committee decides to respond.
Dave - the lists were sent to band secretaries a few weeks ago.
Cheers
Dave Euph
Member
Total agreement ... my personal opinion is that no band should really go down from the top section this year ... although Chapeltown may want to because the jump was just too much for them.ploughboy said:
Then again maybe all three bands will go down and the top three from 1st section will go up no fuss ... although somehow I can see appeals coming in anyway :roll:
Jez
There is nothing in the rules to prevent Hatfield from being promoted, and indeed the Regional Committee has provisionally given them promotion. It will be their decision now as to whether they want to take the step or not.
Promotions and relegations are awarded purely on the number of points awarded over a three year period, without consideration given to how long a band has been in a particular section. Most years, this is pretty clear, but from time to time, when there is a tie, the Regional Committee has to make the call.
There is nothing in the rules to prevent Hatfield from being promoted, and indeed the Regional Committee has provisionally given them promotion. It will be their decision now as to whether they want to take the step or not.
Promotions and relegations are awarded purely on the number of points awarded over a three year period, without consideration given to how long a band has been in a particular section. Most years, this is pretty clear, but from time to time, when there is a tie, the Regional Committee has to make the call.
Accidental
Supporting Member
Lots of discussion on this one, including numbers for diff bands, and the registry rules, here: http://www.themouthpiece.com/viewtopic.php?t=5763
nickjones
Active Member
Relegation
Well it happens , I know of ands who have appealled against relegation and both times it has been in the long term benifit of the band.
1. Point of Ayr Colliery band for years had lobbied for an all wales regional contest ( Point and all N.Wales bands had to qualify for the finals from the N.west , so you would not represent wales in the finals and didnt have a euro qualifiying place ) , and the financial impact of a weekend in Swansea was massive on bands( one of the main reasons Point of Ayr are not with us anymore)how many regions ( apart from scotland ) have bands travelling 150 miles , spending money on conductors , hotels ( before anyone adds why hotels , would you like a 4 hours bus journey then to play fresh at the regional?? ).etc. plus the added bonus of the european qualifying place ( at the time for a few years in the 1980's Point of Ayr was the only Welsh band playing at the British open , winning the Leeds Open , playing at the Granada band of the year etc. ) so the band wanted to compete against the bands like BTM , Lewis Merthyr , Parc and Dare , Cory who were the top bands in wales at the time.
in 1991 North Wales had it's own qualifying competion and as there was only one band in the Championchip section it had to beat an average mark from two areas ( Yorkshire and South Wales ) as I recall the band had 190 on Journey into Freedom , Grimethorpe in Yorkshire had 198 and BTM had 197 ( very high marks for the area ) a lot of people said hard luck the band took it on the chin and were relegated.it wasnt until 1993 when Point of Ayr qualified for the first section finals ( the last time there was a north wales area competition) which they went on to win on an ironic twist " Journey into Freedom " was the same year the band qualified as the only first section band to do so , to play at the British Open.
take it on the chin it might do the band some good in futureto be relegated , or simply play better so you dont get put in this situation.
Well it happens , I know of ands who have appealled against relegation and both times it has been in the long term benifit of the band.
1. Point of Ayr Colliery band for years had lobbied for an all wales regional contest ( Point and all N.Wales bands had to qualify for the finals from the N.west , so you would not represent wales in the finals and didnt have a euro qualifiying place ) , and the financial impact of a weekend in Swansea was massive on bands( one of the main reasons Point of Ayr are not with us anymore)how many regions ( apart from scotland ) have bands travelling 150 miles , spending money on conductors , hotels ( before anyone adds why hotels , would you like a 4 hours bus journey then to play fresh at the regional?? ).etc. plus the added bonus of the european qualifying place ( at the time for a few years in the 1980's Point of Ayr was the only Welsh band playing at the British open , winning the Leeds Open , playing at the Granada band of the year etc. ) so the band wanted to compete against the bands like BTM , Lewis Merthyr , Parc and Dare , Cory who were the top bands in wales at the time.
in 1991 North Wales had it's own qualifying competion and as there was only one band in the Championchip section it had to beat an average mark from two areas ( Yorkshire and South Wales ) as I recall the band had 190 on Journey into Freedom , Grimethorpe in Yorkshire had 198 and BTM had 197 ( very high marks for the area ) a lot of people said hard luck the band took it on the chin and were relegated.it wasnt until 1993 when Point of Ayr qualified for the first section finals ( the last time there was a north wales area competition) which they went on to win on an ironic twist " Journey into Freedom " was the same year the band qualified as the only first section band to do so , to play at the British Open.
take it on the chin it might do the band some good in futureto be relegated , or simply play better so you dont get put in this situation.
yorkie19
Active Member
Dave - One question. Why? By your arguements, you would see no bands promoted to the top section. If we follow that line of arguement, where is the ultimate incentive for bands to play well?Dave Euph said:
Personally speaking, I dislike the appeals process anyway. We know the score before we get on the contest stage.
Sam
ploughboy
Active Member
I believe in the system, If the points say go up, Go up! If the points say go down, Go down! At Emley the points say we should go down and we will, i'm not going to appeal because the band is better than the fourth section, According to the points we are not. So we'll go down carry on building and (fingers crossed) come back up a stronger and more competetive unit!.
If all three bands go up from the first section this year, then all 3 relegated bands MUST come doen from top section, otherwise next year we'll have 16/17 bands in top section!! It's a bit harsh on bands that have just gone up but one of the three (imps) has been in the top secitoon for many years and therefore have got a fair agregate points and should go down and rebuild, It's done driglington no harm this year (2nd in 1st section).
If all three bands go up from the first section this year, then all 3 relegated bands MUST come doen from top section, otherwise next year we'll have 16/17 bands in top section!! It's a bit harsh on bands that have just gone up but one of the three (imps) has been in the top secitoon for many years and therefore have got a fair agregate points and should go down and rebuild, It's done driglington no harm this year (2nd in 1st section).
geordiecolin
Active Member
For what it's worth, Barnsley Building Society are being promoted back to 1st Section, and are not at this moment in time, planning to appeal against it.
Dave Euph
Member
Just a gut-feeling, although I'd love to have proved myself wrong!Lauradoll said:
Total agreement, I'm not saying that's how it should be every year, just this year the standard of playing was higher from the relegated bands than the promoted bands - not that the bands were better, they just played better on the day.yorkie19 said:
But I suppose what i mainly want to see is the Championship section not get any bigger. If this means keeping potential top section bands out of the top section though then this presents a problem ... should the sections be so unbalanced as they already are?
iancwilx
Well-Known Member
There is only one answer to this thorny question - the appeals procedure must be abolished - if you're up, you're up - if you're down , you're down.
NO EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES WHATSOEVER.
The system can only be seen to be fair if the rules are strictly applied to ALL bands - any successful appeal considerations could be interpreted as favouritism and elitism.
We all know the rules when we enter the contest - we ALL should be prepared to abide by them without question.
NO EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES WHATSOEVER.
The system can only be seen to be fair if the rules are strictly applied to ALL bands - any successful appeal considerations could be interpreted as favouritism and elitism.
We all know the rules when we enter the contest - we ALL should be prepared to abide by them without question.