Professional/Forces players

Professionals, Yes or No?


  • Total voters
    24

Will the Sec

Active Member
Professional players? Yes.

Mercenaries? "Have contest registration card will travel" No.

Conductors prepared to fill seats for a specific contest with a mercenary because their players aren't up to it, or (worse) just because a mercenary is available? No.

Committees prepared to condone such activity? No.

I voted Yes on this poll.
 

ScrapingtheBottom

Active Member
Its fine by me as long as the best players are playing where they should be - irrespective of their professional status.

Depping is something that happens and if you can get hold of a pro for one night to dep for you, why not? The chances are they will have either seen the music before or be able to sight read at a very high standard.

As for contests, it depends on the section... 4th section bringing in a load of pro ringers is definately not on... 1st and Champ I don't see the problem.

I guess its all about playing at your level and ruffling as few feathers as possible.
 

PeterBale

Moderator
Staff member
As has already been said, having a number of forces personnel in a band can be a mixed blessing, particularly when military duties must take priority - look at the problems a number of bands faced in last year's contests, when so many people were caught up with the Middle East or Fire-fighting duties.

I do not think there should be any restrictions on professional musicians, forces or otherwise, especially these days when there is so much interaction in the brass world. It would also be difficult to monitor, and how would you police it, particularly if someone is playing in a band on a different instrument to that with which they earn their living?

Whilst I am less certain regarding people stepping in for the occasional event, rather than being regular playing members of bands, do we really have the right to prevent, say, a professional trumpeter from playing with a band on a one-off, when their playing schedule probably wouldn't permit them to be a permanent member? Of course, it is then up to the band in question to keep their remaining players happy, especially if someone is having to step down to make room, but with the apparent general shortage of players at all levels, and the growing need to balance the demands of band and work, there are probably genuine reasons why the vacancy has occurred in most instances.
 
WoodenFlugel said:
I do find it interesting that some people slate bands for using forces players yet accept with open arms the real top men of the movement al la Peter Roberts, Roger Webster et al (for example). As far as I'm aware these players don't have "regular" jobs so their main source of income must be from playing. :?

Peter is a retired Miner.When he played at Sellers he was the groundsman for the exterior of Sellers Engineering. He also went to college to get a degree at Barnsley and he also arranges music. He also drives old folk in a minibus so I would hazard a guess that he doesn't make his living from playing. Roger Webster is a teacher of the cornet at various institutions and also is an adviser at Bessons for the sovereign cornets. You can see a similar theme with other great players in the band movement. Morgan Griffiths is manager at Band Supplies, Leeds. Glyn Williams works for Courtois, Phillip McCann is head of brass at Huddersfield University, Richard Marshall is a teacher etc. etc. etc.

Where do you draw the line? What constitutes a professional? (I know there are obvious answers of course) but where does a teacher sit amongst that amateur or professional.
 

Dave Payn

Active Member
Indeed, the reason I asked 'How many top players get paid' is that, if it happens at the very cream of banding, what's the objection to having 'professional' players in bands all over the place? We have four army players at Fulham. However, none of them get paid for actually PLAYING with Fulham.
 

Trigger

Member
ScrapingtheBottom said:
As for contests, it depends on the section... 4th section bringing in a load of pro ringers is definately not on... 1st and Champ I don't see the problem.

I guess its all about playing at your level and ruffling as few feathers as possible.

Yeah I can see what your saying, about only allowing 'pros' to play in the championship and 1st section, but it the rules should apply to all sections, surely. I think at the end of the day if a forces player or a 'pro' want to play in a brass band, then they should be allowed and if one decides to play for a 4th section band then good on em. An injection of new players is often what bands in the lower sections need to help them build up their status and move up sections. And what is wrong with that?
 

ScrapingtheBottom

Active Member
Trigger said:
Yeah I can see what your saying, about only allowing 'pros' to play in the championship and 1st section, but it the rules should apply to all sections, surely. I think at the end of the day if a forces player or a 'pro' want to play in a brass band, then they should be allowed and if one decides to play for a 4th section band then good on em. An injection of new players is often what bands in the lower sections need to help them build up their status and move up sections. And what is wrong with that?

Of course! I was talking about bringing players for a specific contest. I agree that regular membership of any brass band should be open to anyone who is up to the standard required by the MD (or committee).
 

Kierankc

New Member
permit players

Okiedokie of Oz said... "when D grade bands, who would have sounded rather blase, had B or A grade players filling in on important seats (eg solo cornets, solo/flugel horn, euph, etc)."

Just to put the record straight - In reference to D grade Cairns Brass winning the Championships at Bundaberg, you might like to note that we had 24 of the 31 players on stage still of school age, there were only 3 permits used from the B grade Cairns Band down to D grade, only one of these permits played on his prefered instrument and only one sat on a principal seat, ie the soprano player. We would like to take the opportunity to thank 'Okiedokie' for his comments that we were better than D grade and shall pass your comments onto the young students who worked so hard in preperation for the competition.
Good luck with your tennis, if you practice as hard as our youngster have, you may not need to have Pat in your team!
Kieran Casey
President of Cairns Brass
 
bladder said:
My brother uses a great quote to distinguish between pros and amateurs:

Amateurs practice until they can get it right,
Professionals pracitce until they can't get it wrong!!!

And my dad had one which I think is perhaps more pertinent to this discussion - "Are you paid because you're professional or are you professional because you're paid?" I have absolutely no problems in having "professional" musicians in band ranks. As MD of a 4th section band, I think some younger and more inexperienced players learn a lot from people who spend their lives dealing with music and very good quality musicians. (and the come in handy for laying hands on last minute deps for concerts!!) :lol:
 

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