Problems with Prestige

[jingleram]

Well, have had my prestige euph now for about a month, and have some slight issues with it that haven't been ironed out yet with the initial breaking in.
Firstly, the fourth valve squeaks quite loudly, and I can't find the source of the noise. My teacher-who has had his prestige a long long time, and knows the instrument intimately, suggested taking out the bottom rubber washer, but tihs dosen't seem to have done the trick, and i have also tried wiping the excess water off the valve, as i know this causes problems on the prestige valves...
Secondly, any note above and beyond A-above-the-stave (excluding Top C) seems bizzarely difficult to hit and sustain, again, I have been over this with my teacher, and he is helping me with that, but I was wondering if there ae others that have experienced this problem.
Before this instrument, I had an old round stamped (I think) Sovereign for about 5 years. This instrument I have now is a brand new 2052, which is the large bell version. Maybe I am jumping the gun, and I haven't left enough ime to break the new instrument in, if that is the case, do any others have experience with this instrument and breaking it in, how long did you feel it took for your instrument to reach optimum performance?! Alot to take in lol I know, but if anyone at all has any input, would welcome the advice!!!

 

[Fendall]

I don't see why you should have to work at an instrument to "reach optimum performance", every Yamaha I've ever played has worked perfectly out of the box. It's just me that gets better and worse!!

Take it straight back to the shop for a repair or replacement - the price you pay for those things should mean it works perfectly!

 

[Baritonedeaf]

I know that the Prestige has a very different design of lead pipe - it could take a while to "learn" how to play a larger bore, "freer blowing" instrument. ?

 

[Seedhouse]

Yep, definately agree with the last statement!
I started on an incredibly old Yamaha Euphonium, then moved onto a large bore Sovereign, which took some getting used to, and then I found again that I had to get used to the Prestige too. Having had an accident with my last instrument a month and a half back, I am finding i'm still to "working in the valves" of my new Prestige, so I wouldn't be worried about that... squeaking is a bit concerning though!!!

As for the problems with upper register I couldn't see why you would have any problems, unless there was something within the instrument blocking your airflow. Steven Mead does check each instrument, and i'm pretty sure he can get all the notes out! Don't mean to be rude, but are you sure it's not a playing fault of your own? Is your breathing efficient etc...?

Shame to hear your having problems with it none the less, and I hope you get it sorted

 

[Andy_Euph]

Prestige's are ****e IMHO, you would have been better off getting a Yamaha custom, they are a lot easier to blow.

Either that or find an old sovereign, the ones with the round print on the front of the bell, much better quality than newer instruments.

 

[euphfanhan]

With my prestige I found that the valves (especially fourth) became noisy after about a week of playing, despite cleaning them. I also found it much more difficult to sustain high notes than on my previous euph, a sovreign. To be honest, I much prefer playing on a sovreign. Compared to prestige's, they're also much easier to hold on marches and the fact that they have lyre boxes helps! And in reply to your last question, I still don't feel it has reached its optimum preformance, although thinking about it, it's probably just me

 

[animal77]

Does it have the same size bell as previous instrument?

I found a big difference in top register ability when i moved from a medium-large (11" bell) to large (12") sovereign, even though everything else was same (966 to 967 if remember correctly). Couldn't hit a thing for few weeks. But stick at it, do exercises/scales and it should come.
BTW Are you using same mouthpiece or the SM ones that come with it?

Squeeky valves sound more serious. They may just need working in more or if its a mechanical metal-rubbing-on-metal kind of squeek then they may need re-lapping. People often don't press valves down perfectly parallel to the valve casing so it rubs at one side more than the other. In a new instrument the tolerances between the valve and casing would be much less than on an old instrument and so would cause more problems. Does it stick at all or just squeek?

 

[Mister 4x4]

Squeeky valves sound more serious. They may just need working in more or if its a mechanical metal-rubbing-on-metal kind of squeek then they may need re-lapping. People often don't press valves down perfectly parallel to the valve casing so it rubs at one side more than the other. In a new instrument the tolerances between the valve and casing would be much less than on an old instrument and so would cause more problems. Does it stick at all or just squeek?

Bingo. That's one of the things I noticed with El Cheapo (leaning on the valves as I push them down)... and now I'm seeing me do it with Nacho as well. Nasty habit to break.

Pull the valve, and check for dull spots and/or verticle scoring - if you have an area where it's considerably dull, or a really prominent score-line, you've got a rough-spot or a burr, respectively. If the valve is too 'worn' (has no shine whatsoever) then get some mag wheel polish (or some Brasso or Never Dull) and buff it out to an almost chrome-like finish, oil it up, and start playing again. This time, pull the valve after one practice session and observe the 'wear' on the valve. If you notice the dull streaking/scoring coming back, then you definitely have a rough-spot/burr and either take it back to the dealer or to a repair shop and have the valve-bore re-lapped (or buffed out).

I went through this with El Cheapo until I finally reemed out the bores with my Dremel and a polishing wheel to remove the offending burrs. Works like a champ now.

Good luck.

 

[jingleram]

As for the problems with upper register I couldn't see why you would have any problems, unless there was something within the instrument blocking your airflow.

Don't think so!

Don't mean to be rude, but are you sure it's not a playing fault of your own? Is your breathing efficient etc...?

Thought this was the problem at first, but have been working on it and putting in a lot more air, dosen't sem to be the issue!

With my prestige I found that the valves (especially fourth) became noisy after about a week of playing, despite cleaning them. I also found it much more difficult to sustain high notes than on my previous euph, a sovreign. To be honest, I much prefer playing on a sovreign.

My other valves are fine, it's just the fourth. Even with the squeak and slight delay, the fourth valve is still miles better than on my last instrument, which was in very good nick itself! Sounds like we have the same problem regarding high notes! Generally, the new instrument is very much better than the old one, much easier blowing, valves almost like greased lightening! I love the sound it produces in the middle and lower register!!!

Does it have the same size bell as previous instrument?
BTW Are you using same mouthpiece or the SM ones that come with it?
Does it stick at all or just squeek?

The bell on the prestige is 12.25", 0.25 inches bigger than the sovereign, which does make a difference, but I wouldn't have thought it accounts fully for my problem!
I used the SM3.5 with my sovereign, and I use the new SM3.5 that came with this instrument now.
It seems to me that it dosen't stick, just is a teeny bit slower. Such a small difference though, that it may be psychological! But yes it squeks fairly loudly!
And Mister 4x4, have done as you said, and could see nthing, looked immaculate to my (untrained) eyes!
Thanks everyone for your advice, keep it coming!

 

[Mister 4x4]

And Mister 4x4, have done as you said, and could see nthing, looked immaculate to my (untrained) eyes!

Wow - this is quite the problem. Because 'squeaks' are for clarinets, after all.

Hey - what about the bound-rebound (or 'silence') pads? Are they too big for the bore by any chance? I'm not sure if they actually help with the 'seal' on some of the high-end horns, but if they're just 'that much' too big, then they could create an almost "squeegee" effect... which would most definitely squeak when cycled, and possibly even slow down the movement slightly. Check the pads of #4 against the rest of the pads on the other valves. Maybe even swap them to another valve to see if the problem migrates.

If the bore on #4 is slightly smaller than the rest, then it's a good possibility you might have the pads from a different valve in there instead... IF they actually went with different bore sizes, that is. But then again, I might just be getting too much second-hand smoke here.

Beyond the mechanics of it all... I'm at a loss. There's only 4 (+ however many water keys you have) moving parts on these things... so it shouldn't be too difficult to nail down. Good luck with it.