tony winterbottom
New Member
Couldn't have put it as good as you have Matt. But I most definitely agree 
Pontin 2010 Results?
- Thread starter E flat fred
- Start date
tubafran
Active Member
Not sure to what extent the chalet we stayed in was "refurbished", there was a few blocks where you could see the work being done - I think new carpet and a lick of paint.
I know our ceiling had been repainted, because there was a 2" gap around the light fitting where it was still yellow. I also don't understand the allocation of beds and rooms - they sell a 4 bedded room but two of them are on the lounge sofa. The 6 bedded ones have an extra bedroom for two so 6 people have to share a room where the communal area is someone else's bedroom.
Was looking at the room allocations at Butlins - a 4 person room has 2 separate bedrooms and the lounge is just that.
So in direct cost comparisons you have to compare a Pontins room "for 6" price against a Butlins room for 4 people.
I think I said before that the accommodation would be c*** and that the contest and social side is great (apart from the warming up facilities).
Its also been mentioned that Pontins and Butlins management teams attend each others events - I know which set must be laughing on the way home and which ones should be holding their heads in their hands.
I know our ceiling had been repainted, because there was a 2" gap around the light fitting where it was still yellow. I also don't understand the allocation of beds and rooms - they sell a 4 bedded room but two of them are on the lounge sofa. The 6 bedded ones have an extra bedroom for two so 6 people have to share a room where the communal area is someone else's bedroom.
Was looking at the room allocations at Butlins - a 4 person room has 2 separate bedrooms and the lounge is just that.
So in direct cost comparisons you have to compare a Pontins room "for 6" price against a Butlins room for 4 people.
I think I said before that the accommodation would be c*** and that the contest and social side is great (apart from the warming up facilities).
Its also been mentioned that Pontins and Butlins management teams attend each others events - I know which set must be laughing on the way home and which ones should be holding their heads in their hands.
Robhibberd29
Active Member
Ali
Member
If Im right, the silver class chalets are 3 bed roomed anyway so even if you book for 4, you get an extra room!!!
What has happened to good honest banding? You build a band with the players you have got and work with those players before a contest (or even throughout the year) to deliver the best performance possible on stage. Ok marsden may have borrowed 4 or 5 high class players but im sure they will have paid the price having to pay the players fee!
scotchgirl
Active Member
I think all bands should just borrow as many as they can from the best bands in the country...especially when the prize fund is attractive. Even if you have to pay fees, then they will be covered by the prizes.....fair contest then isn't it? Oh wait....what if you don't win? Oooooops.....
lol!
lol!
Bayerd
Active Member
On this occasion I very much doubt that. Have you heard the interview GW gave on 4br? He said it exactly as it is. Marsden are a hardworking band, he only asked deps to cover for empty seats. He was fortunate that Alan Wycherly told him years ago that the piece requires 2 sops to it justice. One thing Glyn does very well is box clever. Sometimes it comes off, sometimes it doesn't. On this occasion it did. I wouldn't mind betting that the next time LP is used at a contest there's more than one band playing 2 sops.........
What has happened to good honest banding? You build a band with the players you have got and work with those players before a contest (or even throughout the year) to deliver the best performance possible on stage. Ok marsden may have borrowed 4 or 5 high class players but im sure they will have paid the price having to pay the players fee!
In answer to the above and being one of the borrowed players involved
The reason I helped out Marsden was due to being good friends with glyn, having a number of friends and pupils in marsden, liking the test piece and loving Pontins and due to Marsden having a vacancy on the front row. Out of the players who helped Marsden, Nicky Lees is an ex member of Marsden who left to join Fodens, Helen Williams is basically a marsden player covering all Marsdens rehearsals and jobs due to a vacancy. In relation to fees, It appears to be a common assumption that 'Championship Players' only do things for the money (looking at previous threads on the mouthpiece and the above post). I am quite happy to say that for the contest I did 4 rehearsals and the contest and charged Marsden £80. Out of this it cost me £40 in petrol expenses. I know that other deps charged the same and proves that if people enjoying doing something and helping our declining movement in general we do not have to be paid ???? to do so. Marsden courrently have a number of vacancies for various reasons and without the help of Glyns contacts would have had to withdraw from the contest. I am aware of a number of other bands in the contest who used the services of 'Championship Players' or paid 'Pros' to help. Without this help bands would be unable to compete at this and other contests. The rules state you can borrow 5 players and if Marsden were lucky enough to have a full band (which is very uncommon now a days) would not have had to borrowed , they do have vacancies so HAD to borrow players.
Congratulations to Marsden and Glyn!
In answer to the above and being one of the borrowed players involved
The reason I helped out Marsden was due to being good friends with glyn, having a number of friends and pupils in marsden, liking the test piece and loving Pontins and due to Marsden having a vacancy on the front row. Out of the players who helped Marsden, Nicky Lees is an ex member of Marsden who left to join Fodens, Helen Williams is basically a marsden player covering all Marsdens rehearsals and jobs due to a vacancy. In relation to fees, It appears to be a common assumption that 'Championship Players' only do things for the money (looking at previous threads on the mouthpiece and the above post). I am quite happy to say that for the contest I did 4 rehearsals and the contest and charged Marsden £80. Out of this it cost me £40 in petrol expenses. I know that other deps charged the same and proves that if people enjoying doing something and helping our declining movement in general we do not have to be paid ???? to do so. Marsden courrently have a number of vacancies for various reasons and without the help of Glyns contacts would have had to withdraw from the contest. I am aware of a number of other bands in the contest who used the services of 'Championship Players' or paid 'Pros' to help. Without this help bands would be unable to compete at this and other contests. The rules state you can borrow 5 players and if Marsden were lucky enough to have a full band (which is very uncommon now a days) would not have had to borrowed , they do have vacancies so HAD to borrow players.
Congratulations to Marsden and Glyn!
stevetrom
Well-Known Member
did Marsden play 5 borrowed players?
how many borrows are 'officially' allowed?
were the other bands at the contest informed/asked if it was ok by them?
should they receive the prize money if they played with too many borrows?
E flat fred
Member
Wilky
Very well put.
I agree whole heartedly with your statement.
Thanks for the posting.
Very well put.
I agree whole heartedly with your statement.
Thanks for the posting.
Last edited:
E flat fred
Member
Stevetrom
All your questions have been answered on this thread by earlier postings
All your questions have been answered on this thread by earlier postings
scotchgirl
Active Member
You can borrow 5 players for pontins...and you can even borrow from other bands who are already playing (players are allowed to play for a maximum of 2 bands)....
I think that what annoys people (not necessarily me though) is that there is a 'rumour' (substantiated or not) that is going around that Marsden did NOT have 5 players missing at all, but brought in 5 players on principal seats for no other reason than to win the contest. Their own players either doubled in (on sop) or left out for the contest.
Now, I don't even begin to say that this is true, BUT, if it is, then it would really rankle with me personally, since we have had to use borrowed players this year for genuine heart-wrenching reasons, and actually considered not going to the contest.....but like I say, I don't know whether what I have mentioned above is true or not....
Perhaps someone from Marsden band could confirm that they have 5 empty spaces on all of the borrowed player seats?
I think that what annoys people (not necessarily me though) is that there is a 'rumour' (substantiated or not) that is going around that Marsden did NOT have 5 players missing at all, but brought in 5 players on principal seats for no other reason than to win the contest. Their own players either doubled in (on sop) or left out for the contest.
Now, I don't even begin to say that this is true, BUT, if it is, then it would really rankle with me personally, since we have had to use borrowed players this year for genuine heart-wrenching reasons, and actually considered not going to the contest.....but like I say, I don't know whether what I have mentioned above is true or not....
Perhaps someone from Marsden band could confirm that they have 5 empty spaces on all of the borrowed player seats?
stevetrom
Well-Known Member
thats fine then
according to their website
http://www.marsden-band.co.uk
they have vacancies for:
2 x Solo Cornet
Flugel Horn
1st Horn
BBb Bass
do the borrows and deps match up?
Cornishwomble
Active Member
Or you could look at their website http://www.marsden-band.co.uk/ where after looking at the band line up you'll see that isn't the case
In fact if anything isn't this a bit libellous? Are people who are relating that rumour saying that in the interview with 4 barsrest Glyn Williams is lying?
I live in Yorkshire and i've not heard this rumour, in fact you're the first person ive heard say it. So in fact you are actually spreading the rumour by posting it on here
Isn't this getting a bit daft now?
In fact if anything isn't this a bit libellous? Are people who are relating that rumour saying that in the interview with 4 barsrest Glyn Williams is lying?
I live in Yorkshire and i've not heard this rumour, in fact you're the first person ive heard say it. So in fact you are actually spreading the rumour by posting it on here
Isn't this getting a bit daft now?
Goldie Horn
Member
"Isn't this getting a bit daft now?"
YES
They haven't done anything wrong and are lucky enough to have a conductor with excellent contacts. There's nothing wrong with playing two sops. Any band can do it. If you don't like it then the solution is lobbying for a change in the rules, not 'having a go' at Marsden.
YES
They haven't done anything wrong and are lucky enough to have a conductor with excellent contacts. There's nothing wrong with playing two sops. Any band can do it. If you don't like it then the solution is lobbying for a change in the rules, not 'having a go' at Marsden.
tubafran
Active Member
scotchgirl
Active Member
No, it definitely isn't a rumour that I have started....I have heard it yes, and I have to say that I am nowhere near saying I believe it. Re-read my post....I haven't said that its true. In fact it was relayed to me several times on Sunday (at the contest)...and not by one or two people.
I haven't heard the interview that you talk about, since I don't look at 4br (where I presume you're talking about), as this is the only brass band forum type thing I ever look at.....I truly have no interest in other band's politics at all lol! (am not even interested in my own most of the time).
Just because you haven't heard a rumour, doesn't mean anyone else hasn't....the 'north' isn't the only hub of banding you know....banding doesn't start and end at the 'border' of the 'north' to everywhere else lol!
I haven't heard the interview that you talk about, since I don't look at 4br (where I presume you're talking about), as this is the only brass band forum type thing I ever look at.....I truly have no interest in other band's politics at all lol! (am not even interested in my own most of the time).
Just because you haven't heard a rumour, doesn't mean anyone else hasn't....the 'north' isn't the only hub of banding you know....banding doesn't start and end at the 'border' of the 'north' to everywhere else lol!
scotchgirl
Active Member
As for a change in rules....then I would gladly love a change in the Pontins rules to bands only being able to play with registered players to their own band.
Then we would truly get the best performances from the bands themselves. No borrowed players at all for any contests, and bands would only enter contests that they can actually manage, rather than swiping players from other bands to make up their numbers...and it would actually give a true representation of the abilities of the band, and not the deps they use.
Then we would truly get the best performances from the bands themselves. No borrowed players at all for any contests, and bands would only enter contests that they can actually manage, rather than swiping players from other bands to make up their numbers...and it would actually give a true representation of the abilities of the band, and not the deps they use.
Cornishwomble
Active Member
Not saying you started it although i'd love to know how it did
However the responsible thing to do would maybe to a bit of checking up. A minute on the Marsden Website would answer your question about whether they needed deps or if they had people in those seats to start with
Might be worth considering that when these sort of false rumours go online, the people concerned are reading them and this rumour questions their integrity
I agree that the North isn't necessarily the hub of banding, but obviously I'll know more than you whether Marsden has empty seats or not as they are local to me (i used to play for them and know most of the players) so I would have heard this rumour.
Again the responsible thing to do would be to do a bit of research
You might want to take the odd look at 4barrest some time, you could actually hear it from the horses mouth as there is an audio interview with Glyn Williams
Sorry, i dont mean to be argumentative but your original post did come across like it was a bit of juicy gossip
However the responsible thing to do would maybe to a bit of checking up. A minute on the Marsden Website would answer your question about whether they needed deps or if they had people in those seats to start with
Might be worth considering that when these sort of false rumours go online, the people concerned are reading them and this rumour questions their integrity
I agree that the North isn't necessarily the hub of banding, but obviously I'll know more than you whether Marsden has empty seats or not as they are local to me (i used to play for them and know most of the players) so I would have heard this rumour.
Again the responsible thing to do would be to do a bit of research
You might want to take the odd look at 4barrest some time, you could actually hear it from the horses mouth as there is an audio interview with Glyn Williams
Sorry, i dont mean to be argumentative but your original post did come across like it was a bit of juicy gossip
Cornishwomble
Active Member
If they scrapped the no borrow rule, we wouldn't have been able to go as we have 2 cornet vacancies and our Euph player is abroad working.
Love to see how many bands would have actually made Pontins if they hadn't borrowed players
Wonder if there would be a "we need to borrow players" thread if they did scrap borrowing
Love to see how many bands would have actually made Pontins if they hadn't borrowed players
Wonder if there would be a "we need to borrow players" thread if they did scrap borrowing