Playing the race card

MoominDave

Well-Known Member
Accidental said:
BUT..... how p*ed off must folk of other religions and cultures be when the shops and tv ram Christian festivals like Christmas and Easter down everyone's throats for months?!
Just a thought.

Well, surely not very much at all - if I moved to a foreign culture, I would expect things to be done differently - and depending on the culture I moved to within, I might not even expect my freedom of religious choice to be respected. The full-on commercial aspect of Christmas has very little to do with the religious festival that it is supposedly centred on! I'm sure that people who hold non-Christian (or indeed any) religious beliefs in this country find it as easy to overlook the sacred aspect of it all as I do.

Dave
 

BottyBurp

Member
MoominDave said:
Accidental said:
BUT..... how p*ed off must folk of other religions and cultures be when the shops and tv ram Christian festivals like Christmas and Easter down everyone's throats for months?!
Just a thought.

Well, surely not very much at all - if I moved to a foreign culture, I would expect things to be done differently - and depending on the culture I moved to within, I might not even expect my freedom of religious choice to be respected.Dave

Hear Hear! Again, it's all about choice. If I decided to live in a non-Christian culture, I would expect to have to respect that culture.
 

super_sop

Supporting Member
mmm this is were i think im gona get a bit of grieff, but here goes anyway.


as far as i was aware this is a christian country, and people chose to live here, and therefore live by our rules. if they dont like it there are plenty of other countries they can go to. If we were living in other countries we would have to live by there rules, and respect there culture.

im sorry if this seems harsh, there is nobody more fed up with the way that christmas easter etc is thrust in our faces earlier and earlier. but that is the way it is at the moment.
 

Naomi McFadyen

New Member
good job we're not living in the times of Henry VIII!!!! :shock:

A good burning or heads chopped off if you didn't do what you were told

:wink:
 
Having read all the posts on this subject I would say i agree with most of what is being said, but one things jumps out at me, in the middle of all this PC etc where is the respect for the British, Scottish, Welsh, Irish etc we are a Chrisitian Country but our feelings regarding Christian festivals are being ignored. For instance there will be some new law passed which will stop office workers displaying Chrismas Cards in the Office with scenes of the nativity on them, correct me if I am wrong, but is this not how Christmas started.

I firmly believe that we should respect everyone and their believes but that should include everyone..........

rant over.
 

TheMusicMan

tMP Founder
Staff member
Accidental said:
A number of us on here have cited examples where we've had to respect "minority" cultures and deny our own - it seems especially prevalent in schools - and I think it stinks. BUT..... how p*ed off must folk of other religions and cultures be when the shops and tv ram Christian festivals like Christmas and Easter down everyone's throats for months?! Just a thought.

Only the same as we would feel if we chose to live in a country where there was a different culture/main religion to ours... when in Rome etc etc...

We are of a country where Christianity is our culture - if we lived in a country where (to use the same example as I did in my first post) Diwali was celebrated, I'm sure we'd hear of all the other relilgious festivals at certain times of the year let alone the many times daily calling to prayer. Would we shout and complain at the relilgious festivities of other cultures... :?: I doubt it. Dare I ask the question.... would we even be brave enough and dare ask for fear of repurcussions... :shock:

That's the beauty AND main difference for us all here... is that we are tolerant and considerate of all doctrines, religions and cultures etc and we have freedom of speech and freedom of belief here. Maybe too tolerant though eh.

I enjoy and choose to live in a country where this is so, and I'll drink to that. I don't want anyone telling me what I should or should not believe.
 

PeterBale

Moderator
Staff member
TheMusicMan said:
That's the beauty AND main difference for us all here... is that we are tolerant and considerate of all doctrines, religions and cultures etc and we have freedom of speech and freedom of belief here. Maybe too tolerant though eh.

I enjoy and choose to live in a country where this is so, and I'll drink to that. I don't want anyone telling me what I should or should not believe.

I would agree that we do tend to be fairly tolerant in this country, and, whilst being ready to put forward my own beliefs, I would certainly not wish to prevent others from celebrating their culture, religion and heritage in their own way (although even that can cause some conflict, as with Kosher or Halal meat etc). Also, I feel that we can all learn much from those of other faiths, not least when it comes to maintaining those traditions, and giving their religion due priority in their lives.

In some ways, I think the readiness of Moslems and others to speak out has galvanised Christian leaders into action. As for the Christian church in general, I feel that sometimes they are on a hiding to nothing: people complain when the church says nothing, but when they do try to take a stand, as with the proposed changes to the gambling laws, they are often accused of being killjoys and spoiling what people maintain is "innocent" fun. Equally, those groups that campaign against the promoting of Halloween celebrations are often pilloried, although that really does seem to have taken on quite sinister overtones in some parts of the country in recent years.

One difficulty for the church, of course, is that it is made up of a wide range of people who may hold various stances on topical issues, and even those quoting the Bible to justify their point of view will disagree, as witnessed by the recent row over the consecration of the gay bishop in the States. It is up to each of us, ultimately, to make up our own minds, and live our lives accordingly.
 

BigHorn

Active Member
I think the last few posts are missing the point a bit. On the whole it is not the ethnic minorities themselves who are trying to destroy the indiginous culture of this country, it is the wishy-washy, liberal, PC brigade - usually white middle class lefties with social science degrees. These tend to be very vocal and often work in the media and schools where they can easily do their brain washing.
However, I don't honestly think it is this lot that are actually applying these daft PC rules. It is normal people like me and you who lack the courage to do things that we have done for years for fear of encountering the wrath of these 'do-gooders' (now there's one for the oxymoron thread)
 

Cornishwomble

Active Member
BigHorn said:
I think the last few posts are missing the point a bit. On the whole it is not the ethnic minorities themselves who are trying to destroy the indiginous culture of this country, it is the wishy-washy, liberal, PC brigade - usually white middle class lefties with social science degrees. These tend to be very vocal and often work in the media and schools where they can easily do their brain washing.
However, I don't honestly think it is this lot that are actually applying these daft PC rules. It is normal people like me and you who lack the courage to do things that we have done for years for fear of encountering the wrath of these 'do-gooders' (now there's one for the oxymoron thread)

Totally agree. Unfortunately these yoghurt knitters are in powerful positions as they are in Quangos funded by the taxpayer. The government will not intervene as they are scared of being acused of extremist views.
I have a social science degree, so we're not all the same! However I do come into contact with these people and they are unbelievable at times. It doesn't matter what you say or do they will always find a racist/sexist/ageist/anti-disabled angle to it. I was told once that the only reason I went to watch my beloved AFC Wimbledon was because it was a "safe haven" for racists, a place where us fans could express our racist views! And there's me thinking it was for the bovril and meat pie!
It's about time they were told to shut up. instead of concentrating efforts on how not to offend others, we should concentrate our efforts on communicating with people who are different to ourselves.
 

lynchie

Active Member
read a great letter somewhere the other day. some woman complaining that there was a show about the history of islam on on christmas day. Really, there are appropriate times for us to find out about other religions, but on the most sacred day of the year for christians, maybe not...
 

Pythagoras

Active Member
lynchie said:
read a great letter somewhere the other day. some woman complaining that there was a show about the history of islam on on christmas day. Really, there are appropriate times for us to find out about other religions, but on the most sacred day of the year for christians, maybe not...

Have to disagree with this. Not every body in this country is Christian. Does every program on at Christmas have to be Christian? If secular programs are OK why not programs about other religions? As an atheist I would be pretty angry if TV scheduling was solely done by members of a particular belief system.

Also, it would be hoped that Christmas is a time for people to try and understand there fellow men better, so it could be argued that it is the ideal time to show a program about a faith of which a lot of people are ignorant. A local mosque near me had a meeting today about the importance of Jesus to the muslim faith, this is the perfect time of year to promote cross religion understanding.

Having said this I didn't watch the program, I was probably getting drunk or watching a film not about Christmas.
 

Brian Kelly

Active Member
I totally agree that everyone should be allowed to celebrate (or not to celebrate) their own culture, traditions, religions etc. as they wish.

I also totally agree that the PC lobby can and do go over the top, and some of them (at least those reported in certain newspapers) at times seem to take an Orwellian view of "minority good, majority bad".

However, it must be said, putting the other side of the argument, that racism and xenophobia are still prevalent in many places and groups among the majority population. Remember the undercover Panorama documentary about racism in the police force? Not too long ago I was shocked to witness xenophobia in a most surprising location, and believe me it wasn't pretty.

If everyone simply treated everyone else with courtesy, politeness and respect, then the PC lobby would cease to exist.
 

Accidental

Supporting Member
Interesting - the moment I mention people of other cultures/religions, you all seem to think I was talking about people who've just chosen to arrive in this country. What about 2nd, 3rd, 4th.... generation British Born non-Christian people

Before you all shoot me down in flames, read my first post - I actually agree with pretty much everything on here! I just thought it was starting to get a wee bit xenophobic and thought it was worth mentioning that "we" are not the only ones whos culture gets forgotten or supressed sometimes. Peace and tolerance y'all :)
 

Steve

Active Member
Living in Leicester I am faced with this problem every minute of every day. I honestly feel that it is not a case of us not appreciating their beliefs, it is a case of them not understanding how hard it is to fit their beliefs into our way of life. Ramadan being a perfect example!!!!!!

If I tell a customer they cant have something it isnt because they are black/brown/pink/yellow/purple, it is because they cant have it. If I wont do something for someone it is for exactly the same reasons.

This year Leicester had half the city closed off and enough lights to light the isle of wight for the Indian new year, the Pakistani new year and Divali. Why then can I not put up a St Georges Cross on April 23rd without getting prosecuted, or send a christmas card with religious symbols on it for fear of someone seeing it as a compensation claim? I also cant stand it when 'they' talk in foreign languages to each other when they are capable of speaking English.

It has all gone way too far and I get fed up of having to put disclaimers before and after every sentence for fear of someone of a different skin colour not liking the point I am making. "Racist" is a nasty label and one that sticks for a long time.

DISCLAIMER: My views outlined in this post are in no way intended to offend or insult members of other ethnic/religious/moral backgrounds to myself. Should your personal opinion differ I am more than willing to accept your comments and try and understand them in order to make myself a more knowledgeable & considerate person.
 
Steve21 said:
Living in Leicester I am faced with this problem every minute of every day. I honestly feel that it is not a case of us not appreciating their beliefs, it is a case of them not understanding how hard it is to fit their beliefs into our way of life. Ramadan being a perfect example!!!!!!

If I tell a customer they cant have something it isnt because they are black/brown/pink/yellow/purple, it is because they cant have it. If I wont do something for someone it is for exactly the same reasons.

This year Leicester had half the city closed off and enough lights to light the isle of wight for the Indian new year, the Pakistani new year and Divali. Why then can I not put up a St Georges Cross on April 23rd without getting prosecuted, or send a christmas card with religious symbols on it for fear of someone seeing it as a compensation claim? I also cant stand it when 'they' talk in foreign languages to each other when they are capable of speaking English.

It has all gone way too far and I get fed up of having to put disclaimers before and after every sentence for fear of someone of a different skin colour not liking the point I am making. "Racist" is a nasty label and one that sticks for a long time.

DISCLAIMER: My views outlined in this post are in no way intended to offend or insult members of other ethnic/religious/moral backgrounds to myself. Should your personal opinion differ I am more than willing to accept your comments and try and understand them in order to make myself a more knowledgeable & considerate person.

Is it me or are only white people seen as racist, can it not work the other way round as well???

I know I will always put my St Georges cross on the 23rd and I don't care what other people will think about it cos I'm proud of who I am!

Steve21 said:
I also cant stand it when 'they' talk in foreign languages to each other when they are capable of speaking English.

Thats one that really bugs me as well. Makes you feel as if they are talking about you and insulting you, kind of builds the tension and makes people more annoyed!
 

bagpuss

Active Member
This may have been said elsewhere in this thread but I think the word we are looking for here is EQUALITY. For a long time now, people have campaigned for equality for minority groups and quite rightly so. Somewhere along the way however, equality for the rest of us (the majority if you like) has been forgotten. Purely as examples:

We are not allowed to send Christmas cards or display our national flag - but certain groups can celebrate their own religious festivals and hang their own religious symbols up for all to see as well as their flags etc. Where is the equality here???

If I remember correctly, a lot of the 'political correctness' lobby's ideas are not law. I don't think they should ever allowed to be. Next time you hear someone being politically correct for the sake of it, correct them.

What about that islamic extremist preaching in Finsbury Park mosque?? Preaching how he hated Britain and how everyone should rise against the British?? Why is he still here?? Why was HE not prosecuted for inciting racial hatred and booted out of the country faster than you can say 'asylum'??

My views are not meant to offend anyone.

Puss
 

lynchie

Active Member
they can't be law, since otherwise half the big institutions in this country would be guilty...

the QUEEN makes a Christmas speech
the BBC has a separate Christmas schedule
the Radio Times prints a special Christmas issue
The Weather reports identify Christmas Day, Christmas Eve, Boxing Day, Easter Sunday
We have Bank Holidays based around Christian Festivals

seems it's just these little "equality" groups that are really up for stopping us acting like christians in public... oh, and the communists...
 

trombelle

Member
jus a thought about people talking in different languages.....
the british are well known for rarely bothering to learn other languages when they go abroad. i bet most british people barely speak a word of french/italian/greek/ etc when they go on holiday yet many people visiting us DO put the effort in to learn English. I realise that English is a widely spoken language and non-british ppl who learn it will gain more advantages that british ppl learin greek for example but i think it works both ways.

even if you could speak for example, french, but while in france spoke english to your family/friends would you be surprised if ppl were angry? course you would, it's up to you what language you speak. yet many british ppl expect non-english speakers to speak in english whilest they are here. surely the whole point of freedom is that you can speak in whatever language you fell most comfortable in. obv it wud be rude to speak in a language that the majority of others dont understand in a social situation like a party/dinner but on a one to one basis i honestly don't think it matter.

one final point before you all fall asleep......... many european cultures make learning a second language compulsory form the age of 4/5 until at least 16/18. although i still believe that it is part laziness on the part of the british ( yes that includes me) some of the blame also must rest on the major institutions of this country. we don't NEED to learn another languages so we don't bother. i think this breeds a bit of a "them and us" culture from a young age.

*phew* that was a bit heavy.......i don't know what came over me.........sorri!
 

EIBB_Ray

Member
I've been reading this thread with interest before chiming in. I thought this dilema was primarily and american one, interesting to see how universal it is. Here the relgious argument in drenched in interpretation of our constitution. Lately it seems that some are interpretting the clause that specifics that government cannot endorse any religion, to mean that government cannot tolerate, recognize or cooperate with any particular religion, even if any such consideration is devoid of any favoritism. So, now cities can't even allow Christmas decorations, or hold Christamas activities, even if they were to open up publicly supported events ot other religions. There are some huge complex cases pending.

Personally, I think the whole thing is out of control. People have lost the sense of resonableness. It's reasonable for the law to protect against government endorsing mine and only my religion. But it's not reasonable for government to pretend religion doesn't exist. Government, in whatever form, is a collection of people and must reflect something of the history of those people. Same with race, sure I live in a white dominated society and plenty of have been or are being discriminated against and that's wrong, but just because one belongs to a minority doesn't mean you get everything your way. Life is inherently not fair. We can never make up for the wrongs of the past, we can only work to make the future better, try to treat each other fairly, embrace others cultures, backgrounds and beliefs and try to get along, in short, be reasonable.
 

BottyBurp

Member
Is being xenophobic (as opposed to racism) such a bad thing? Why should we allow the fabric of our society be eroded? Why should we open the gates to hundreds of thousands of immigrants to pour into our country?

Where I live, the BNP has made massive inroads in their popularity as the mainstream parties won't curb immigration. Whilst I disagree with most of the BNP's policies, I can see them gaining a few seats round here.

I really resent my taxes being spent housing "asylum seekers".
 

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