Paddy's Welsh Area - 2011

[Thirteen Ball]

I think there's a more important issue at stake here though John. Forget the rights and wrongs of the Wrexham situation, who said what etc etc. This situation has proven that any band or individual in the country can theoretically be excluded from the biggest contest of the year on the say-so of a private hearing, and without the courtesy of an explanation.

That is a questionable state of affairs, whatever the rights and wrongs of this particular case - and surely indicates that the procedure for any future situations of this nature needs setting down in stone, so there can be none of the 'smoke and mirrors' that have been complained about in this case.

As I have said before, it may well be that the decision of the panel is entirely right, and that the honour of banding has been upheld entirely - but the manner in which events have proceeded does not reassure banding at large that justice has been done. This is why criminal trials are conducted in public, because justice does not just have to be done, but it has to be seen to be done.

The long and the short of it is that nobody has enough information to make that value judgement on the justice or otherwise of the decision, for themselves. I can see why some members of the banding community find that hard to swallow.

If there is to be a line drawn under this whole, unfortunate episode, it must come with reassurances that any similar situation will be dealt with far more transparently in future.

 

[BurgerBoy]

I think there's a more important issue at stake here though John. Forget the rights and wrongs of the Wrexham situation, who said what etc etc. This situation has proven that any band or individual in the country can theoretically be excluded from the biggest contest of the year on the say-so of a private hearing, and without the courtesy of an explanation.

That is a questionable state of affairs, whatever the rights and wrongs of this particular case - and surely indicates that the procedure for any future situations of this nature needs setting down in stone, so there can be none of the 'smoke and mirrors' that have been complained about in this case.

As I have said before, it may well be that the decision of the panel is entirely right, and that the honour of banding has been upheld entirely - but the manner in which events have proceeded does not reassure banding at large that justice has been done. This is why criminal trials are conducted in public, because justice does not just have to be done, but it has to be seen to be done.

The long and the short of it is that nobody has enough information to make that value judgement on the justice or otherwise of the decision, for themselves. I can see why some members of the banding community find that hard to swallow.

If there is to be a line drawn under this whole, unfortunate episode, it must come with reassurances that any similar situation will be dealt with far more transparently in future.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. The Wrexham Brass issue is important (at least to some) but it the way it's been dealt with that is worrying and should concern all "proper" bandsmen and women. Secrecy from the committee, nothing from CBB and it seems as if nothing has been put in writing to Wrexham, 5 months after the appeal was held.

Those that rule (and it appears to be Kapitol alone these days) are not accountable to those that pay their wages (so to speak) i.e. the bands and band members who give up so much to compete, both money and time and (sometimes) family (I knew a conductor who left a band just after his wife gave birth to their second with the word "I missed my first growing up...).

They should be help to account and, if the banding world so desires, made to step aside to allow others to take over.

I must say, I find it worrying and sinister that Messrs Morris and Buckley are described as regular visitors to this forum but have not commented. There have been enough calls for the decision to be publicly justified that their silence could be described as deafening.....

 

[TheMusicMan]

I must say, I find it worrying and sinister that Messrs Morris and Buckley are described as regular visitors to this forum but have not commented. There have been enough calls for the decision to be publicly justified that their silence could be described as deafening.....

Anyone can visit and view content on tMP without having to register.

Nobody has to register...

Not sure why this should worry you, it's a matter of personal choice if someone registers or not, and even then, they still decide if they wish to participate in any of the public discussions.

 

[Will the Sec]

Anyone can visit and view content on tMP without having to register.

And in the case of of those mentioned, actually contacted an individual for action to be taken wihout having ever read the problematic comment.

 

[Thirteen Ball]

They should be help to account and, if the banding world so desires, made to step aside to allow others to take over.

Now you're putting words in my mouth. I am simply advocating clarity in all issues from all parties. So far we have only half the story, which makes it impossible to form any value judgement.

In my opinion it would be in the interests of all concerned to put forward as much information as they have, as this prevents the possibility of 'filling in the blanks' with assumptions, half-truth and exaggeration - however we as a movement are currently in no position to press for this.

Just because the Welsh Area comittee have not come forward with such information does not necessarily indicate they have anything to hide. And absence of evidence is not in itself indicative.....

 

[TheMusicMan]

And in the case of of those mentioned, actually contacted an individual for action to be taken wihout having ever read the problematic comment.

I too have been contacted... quite a few times.

 

[Sopex]

Are you lot still harping on about this! Get a grip and move on, it really is quite tiresome and boring.

 

[BurgerBoy]

Anyone can visit and view content on tMP without having to register.

Nobody has to register...

Not sure why this should worry you, it's a matter of personal choice if someone registers or not, and even then, they still decide if they wish to participate in any of the public discussions.

The should have read Comment, not Register.

 

[hobgoblin]

Are you lot still harping on about this! Get a grip and move on, it really is quite tiresome and boring.

.....But this is an issue which strikes to the very core of the future of banding (apparently), and is so important that we have to go round in circles for 12 months. It will be a huge moral victory for all the wronged parties if this thread is still going by the time the 2012 areas come round, proving that the WRC were wrong, all the bans will be quashed, and there will be a change to last years 1st section results (probably).

 

[marc71178]

How does any of that prove the WRC wrong? All it is a few internet trolls (who in the main remain anonymous) keeping on stirring the pot every couple of weeks.

 

[BurgerBoy]

.....But this is an issue which strikes to the very core of the future of banding (apparently), and is so important that we have to go round in circles for 12 months. It will be a huge moral victory for all the wronged parties if this thread is still going by the time the 2012 areas come round, proving that the WRC were wrong, all the bans will be quashed, and there will be a change to last years 1st section results (probably).

I'm not reciting my views for you again, they are clearly made out within this thread. The fact that others apart from Wayne, myself and you have read and posted here suggests that others agree with me.

One thing though - I don't think anyone has ever said the results were bad. Your comment (probably) suggests you might - care to expand?

 

[hobgoblin]

Certainly..post 77 in this thread describes the results as a "joke". I'm sure there may be more examples. I like this thread, and try to pop in at least once a week to laugh at it in much the same way as I like to turn over the compost heap in my garden every so often say hello to the worms. The whole saga has been a gift of true comedy gold & it just keeps on giving.

 

[TheMusicMan]

Are you lot still harping on about this! Get a grip and move on, it really is quite tiresome and boring.

Don't read it then.

A total of 17 posts since 2005 suggests perhaps you should look at some other threads rather than increasing your daily post ratio by 0.001%

 

[BikeBadger]

How does any of that prove the WRC wrong? All it is a few internet trolls (who in the main remain anonymous) keeping on stirring the pot every couple of weeks.

hobgoblin was giving us the benefit of his devastating irony. And what is hobgoblin if he isn't an anonymous troll, stirring the pot every couple of weeks? The guy has done more than anyone to keep this pot simmering.
HOBGOBLIN! The worms of the world salute you sir!

 

[Sopex]

Anyone can visit and view content on tMP without having to register.

Nobody has to register...

Not sure why this should worry you, it's a matter of personal choice if someone registers or not, and even then, they still decide if they wish to participate in any of the public discussions.

Don't read it then.

A total of 17 posts since 2005 suggests perhaps you should look at some other threads rather than increasing your daily post ratio by 0.001%

So one minute you are saying you dont need to post, or even register, then you are picking me up for posting on what is quite frankly a thread that has been allowed to run for far too long. Other threads have been closed a lot quicker, e.g. the one regarding the use of twitter at Butlins. Oooh sorry for not being active (I'm not interested in telling you what my favourite march is or what size my inside leg is). The reason I chose to post is because I log on regularly to keep up with what is happening/going on in the banding world and all I see at the top of this forum every day is this thread. It is now beyond interesting to anyone, save for what seems to be a few 'aggreived' individuals.

Dont pull me up for how often I post, it is this kind of moderation that backs up what a lot of people say about tmp. And sticking a smily face at the end means nothing to me, you might as well have stuck two fingers up.

 

[BikeBadger]

Topic?

 

[Thirteen Ball]

Topic?

Somewhat exhausted by now I'd say.....

 

[Rustonw]

I have just sent the following email to Philip Morris in an attempt to finally get the long awaited letter from the appeals panel. Lets hope it arrives this time. I will of course post it on here as soon as I receive it.


Philip,

After our long awaited appeal back in September 2011 I'm disappointed that the letter explaining the upholding of our ban and publicly promised to myself and Wrexham brass within 14 (fourteen) days has sadly not materialised. I'm assume there is a straight forward explanation for the delay as I am sure yourself and Alan hope are busy men. However, I am still very interested to understand how the appeal was turned down when the case and evidence put forward by us at the time clearly highlighted many contradictions and fabrications in your original statements. Therefore I think it's at the very least good manners to inform us of the reasons and how your panel of three came to their decision.


I will post this email on tmp so that everyone is aware of my request to you. I look forward to a speedy response.


Wayne Ruston


17/02/2012

 

[TheMusicMan]

So one minute you are saying you dont need to post, or even register, then you are picking me up for posting on what is quite frankly a thread that has been allowed to run for far too long. Other threads have been closed a lot quicker, e.g. the one regarding the use of twitter at Butlins. Oooh sorry for not being active (I'm not interested in telling you what my favourite march is or what size my inside leg is). The reason I chose to post is because I log on regularly to keep up with what is happening/going on in the banding world and all I see at the top of this forum every day is this thread. It is now beyond interesting to anyone, save for what seems to be a few 'aggreived' individuals.

Dont pull me up for how often I post, it is this kind of moderation that backs up what a lot of people say about tmp. And sticking a smily face at the end means nothing to me, you might as well have stuck two fingers up.

I honestly couldn't care if you're active or not, but quite simply, if you don't want to read a thread... don't read it. Simple really. People do tend to get rather annoyed when their inane and rather useless posts are moderated or commented upon. I don't have any birdie smilies, sorry, so this will have to do again I'm afraid...

 

[BikeBadger]

Somewhat exhausted by now I'd say.....

Ha!