Paddy's European Championships - 2011

One problem with that last comment Cory and Tredegar were there to win not to come 2nd or 3rd.
It is a very expensive weekend for the bands (in both prep time and money) and making up the numbers is not really the aim.

Iain Fleming.

I didn't at all insinuate that. Although, and obviously, I would prefer to see them both win but It's nice to see Welsh bands on top form and two of them in a contest making a real mark (in Cory's situation has made a real mark for the last 10 years plus at the Europeans!). I know they were there to win and I know that making the numbers up wasn't the aim either but It's a good thing for Welsh banding to see our top 2 band doing excellent. Both of them the best bands in Europe and if not the world. Well done Cory and Tredegar!:clap:
 

Aidan

Active Member
One problem with that last comment Cory and Tredegar were there to win not to come 2nd or 3rd.
It is a very expensive weekend for the bands (in both prep time and money) and making up the numbers is not really the aim.
Not meaning this personally but I think this is quite a bad mentality that seems to persist generally in the british banding movement, and is a contributor to why I think we will see even less victories from british bands at the euros in coming years.

haha Dewi, og gratulerer selv!
Rotterdam 2010 blir fett!!
 

Jan H

Moderator
Staff member
First of all congratulations to Manger with their victory.

I can say about NLBB, the Belgian band, that they were extremely delighted to be able to go the EBBC. They did a couple of fundraising events, and held approximately 40 rehearsals especially for the championships (including one full day rehearsal) and several try-out concerts. They were very pleased with their 5th place.

What i found very interesting, was that the first two places went to Manger and NLBB, two bands that were conducted by symphonic conductors, both connected to the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra and its chief conductor, Mariss Jansons. Coincidence?
 
What i found very interesting, was that the first two places went to Manger and NLBB, two bands that were conducted by symphonic conductors, both connected to the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra and its chief conductor, Mariss Jansons. Coincidence?

Coincidence maybe, and I did not know that much abour their background anyway. But I am not really surprised as I thought that both directors, but in particular the Norwegian director, put the musical interpretation on a level that the other directors simply could not reach. This was more obvious in the set piece than the own choice, but these guys brought in another dimension of musicality.

I think Cory in particular still had the best "material" in both individual brillance of the musicians, ensemble work, band sound and so on (same probably goes for Tredegar and a few other british bands that were not present at this contest). It is something that yet has to be matched by the "european" bands. However, they are getting closer and closer, and if they then have someone at the helm that is simply playing in another league, it can be sufficient to win a contest like this.

Don't get me wrong, I thought all bands and all conductors were very good (the standard was sometimes unbelievable). However: british bands know by heart how to play a "Sparke" in stunning fashion, and their conductors know by heart how the get the best out of the music. But if routes outside of the tested "brass stuff" are taken, the conductors seem not the have the same convincing musical answers, and then, even the best band in the world can not play to its full potential.

Btw: I heard twenty out of twenty performances that weekend.
 
Aidan, please enlighten me as to the point of playing in a brass band contest?

Sorry I thought it was to win, otherwise whats the point.

We could all take up golf I suppose but the same thing applies, doing your best
and hopefully winning.

We all take part in a results driven genre and that's the name of the game.

In my opinion of course.

Iain Fleming
 
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Jan H

Moderator
Staff member
I think some people are just proud to be able to represent their country, and their goal is not to win but to play to the maximum of their own abilities... That would be my goal anyway, but I doubt I'll ever have the chance... ;)
 

Zappa

Member
Don't get me wrong, I thought all bands and all conductors were very good (the standard was sometimes unbelievable). However: british bands know by heart how to play a "Sparke" in stunning fashion, and their conductors know by heart how the get the best out of the music. But if routes outside of the tested "brass stuff" are taken, the conductors seem not the have the same convincing musical answers, and then, even the best band in the world can not play to its full potential.

Btw: I heard twenty out of twenty performances that weekend.

Wasn't there so didn't hear any bands ... However, this really does not surprise me in some ways ... A very interesting point. Dare I say that maybe quite a few of these european conductors have had far more than just brass band experience????
 
Wasn't there so didn't hear any bands ... However, this really does not surprise me in some ways ... A very interesting point. Dare I say that maybe quite a few of these european conductors have had far more than just brass band experience????

...or maybe they just simply are a bit better, or maybe one does not go without the other...?!
 

MoominDave

Well-Known Member
I think Cory in particular still had the best "material" in both individual brillance of the musicians, ensemble work, band sound and so on (same probably goes for Tredegar and a few other british bands that were not present at this contest). It is something that yet has to be matched by the "european" bands. However, they are getting closer and closer, and if they then have someone at the helm that is simply playing in another league, it can be sufficient to win a contest like this.

This intrigues me... I'd like to hear some more opinions on it - are the best British bands really out in front technique- and ensemble-wise? I must admit that I haven't spent enough time listening to the best that is offered by other countries to comment with any certainty myself, but that's not the impression that I'd gleaned. Bands like Eikanger (and Manger this year), Willebroek, and Oberosterreich (not to mention Fountain City in the US) have struck me on the occasions that I have heard them as being in performance just as virtuosic and tight as the best we have to offer. One of the participants in the recent Europeans posted here that the Swedish band was made up entirely of professionals - can they really be behind on these factors? I'm willing to believe it if others confirm - but it just sounds a bit unlikely to me.

Perhaps what we are observing is that what it takes to win the Europeans is not quite the same as what it takes to win UK contests - noting that YBS's amazing run in past years there while not being so dominating in domestic competition is strong supporting evidence for that. But what is the difference? What are the European judges looking for compared to judges in our own competitions? And - given that there's a fair overlap between the two sets of judges - why and how?

Interesting stuff...
 

MoominDave

Well-Known Member
Further, do band competitions in other countries not select for quite the same things we do? Perhaps there is a greater emphasis on making interesting and informed musical choices?
Too often here I have seen bands penalised harshly for trying something a little different, when they should have been encouraged instead. The "This isn't how the Chutney Works Band did it in 1950" mentality in adjudicating is, to my mind, never acceptable, but sadly all too common - have other countries perhaps not fallen into this trap?
 

gaussy

New Member
I was not at he EBBC this year. I'm rather surprised to read about the low points for cory and 13 Etoiles for performing the testpiece.
But i want to gratulate all bands playing this contest!
 

007ish

Member
Could someone inform me how many of the top placed bands will now pre-qualify for next year’s final?
 

BikeBadger

Member
It's nice to see Welsh bands on top form and two of them in a contest making a real mark .....It's a good thing for Welsh banding to see our top 2 band doing excellent. Both of them the best bands in Europe and if not the world. Well done Cory and Tredegar!:clap:

S'pose the story of the missing music n sticks will become general knowledge in the fullness of time :rolleyes:
 

Fedman

Member
Or do you mean as well as Manger, meaning that, Cory will be there having won this years Welsh area? :confused:


You asked which bands would pre-qualify not which bands will be there as their country's current champions. So yes as it happens Cory will be there again as Welsh Champions 2011.

Manger pre-qualify as 2011 Champion and all the others will have to qualify - some already have, as you suggest, Cory, as has Eikanger so there will be 2 bands from Norway. Similar reason why there were 2 bands from Wales this year.:)
 

Aidan

Active Member
Sorry I thought it was to win, otherwise whats the point.

It's a good point that of course the movement is structured entirely on competition (at least in the UK anyway), but do you think some of the European Bands would have achieved such results if their conductors had "played to win" like some British conductors do?
While most if not all of the UK bands (maybe with the exception of kingdom) would have come into the competition 'expecting' to win, I know that bands such as Manger went there full of optimism and knowing that they were very definately underdogs, and I'm sure would have been absolutely delighted with a 2nd place.
They view podium places as achievements (especially against tough competition) and we just view them as failures no matter who the competition is.
I know which camp I favour.
 

Kaggen90

Member
It's a good point that of course the movement is structured entirely on competition (at least in the UK anyway), but do you think some of the European Bands would have achieved such results if their conductors had "played to win" like some British conductors do?
While most if not all of the UK bands (maybe with the exception of kingdom) would have come into the competition 'expecting' to win, I know that bands such as Manger went there full of optimism and knowing that they were very definately underdogs, and I'm sure would have been absolutely delighted with a 2nd place.
They view podium places as achievements (especially against tough competition) and we just view them as failures no matter who the competition is.
I know which camp I favour.
I totally agree with you.
 

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