Official tMP L & SC Regional 2008 thread

Bayerd

Active Member
A point I was making is that for a band located where Marsden is, it is no big difficulty to enter random march contests where there are points on offer.
For us, it involves a 400 mile round trip, and probably an overnight stay. And finding out about the damn things in the first place! The 'JJB march contest' - never heard of it! And yet it attracts entries from seriously good bands.
We went to Whit Friday last year under the impression that 4BR used this for rankings points; we did pretty well, even beating Faireys at one venue. Had a great time (which was the main point) - but all to no avail rankings-wise, as the contests weren't counted.

In summary - it is disproportionately hard for L&SC bands to 'play the game' because of distance. This is the geographically isolating effect in the rankings that I was talking about.

The JJB no longer exists, and I agree that travelling distance puts you at a disadvantage. Maybe Wychavon is a possibility? It tends to get some decent bands entering. All I was saying is that you could make a big difference to your position, it just involves travel:-?
 

MoominDave

Well-Known Member
I think it should be 6 for both years - there were only 12 bands yesterday, and no no-shows that I'm aware of.

No, ignore me, 12 bands = 6.5 average points, according to the rules, which I now have a copy of.

In light of this (try again...), we should be going into next year with the following positions:

1 Redbridge 2 (1+1)
2 A&N 4 (2+2)
3 ZOB 7 (3+4)
4 MK Broseley 8.5 (5.5P+3)
5= KM Medway 11.5 (5.5P+6)
5= Ipswich and Norwich 12 (5.5P+6.5P)
5= City of Cambridge 12 (5.5P+6.5P)
8= Kidlington 14 (4+10)
8= Bedford 14 (6P+8 )
10= Wantage 15 (6P+9)
10= Clacton-on-sea 15 (8+7)
12 Staines 16 (11W+5)

Assuming an average score of 5.5 for 2007 (10 bands competed), and 6.5 for 2008 (12 bands competed) as per the rules.
Hopefully that's right now...
 

PeterBale

Moderator
Staff member
Just as a matter of curiosity, anybody know what happened to Betteshanger?

It was certainly rather odd, having drawn 4 but not turning up. Still, the extra wait didn't eem to do Alder Valley any harm ;)

2nd Section retrospective will be appearing on 4barsrest shortly.

Regarding the Championship section, I heard all bands bar two - sorry, Clacton and Welwyn :( . Very wide range of interpretation, and a couple of surprises from me in the placings.

I certainly thought Kidlington would have been a bit higher placed - clean performance and with the trombone section working beautifully: more in context than some, when it seemed more Wagnerian than Mozart or Ball.

I liked Paul Archibald's interpretation, although there were too many slips for them to get any higher, whilst I tipped Derick for the euphonium prize as soon as he had played. No quibbles over the top two, and I thought Ralph was on top form with Redbridge.

Staines did very well for a band in transition, and Milton Keynes Brass, playing last, well deserved their 3rd place. I found a couple of the perfomances very heavy and over-agressive, however, and I didn't think the overall standard of horn solos was all that brilliant - of all the solosits, it seemed to be them who had most problems.

Nevertheless it was a good day, and it was good to see a few tMPers around, even if not to speak to for long.
 
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MoominDave

Well-Known Member
I certainly thought Kidlington would have been a bit higher placed - clean performance and with the trombone section working beautifully: more in context than some, when it seemed more Wagnerian than Mozart or Ball.

Thanks Peter, it's good to hear a well-informed second opinion (especially one that flatters a little bit more!). It was nice to speak to you yesterday.
 

The Wherryman

Active Member
Thanks for the confirmation and well done on another top end placing.

Now for the interesting stat and why I asked the question earlier:

Of the top 5 bands in this section, 4 played in the same group i.e. 13th, 12th, 14, 15th.
Extend to top 7 positions and we add 16th to that as well. Interesting. (there is no ultierior motive in this, I wasn't there and didn't hear any of them!! Just noticed the close grouping.

In the 2nd section, bands drawn 11,12 & 13 also came one after another in 2nd, 3rd & 4th spots.
I'm changing my lotto numbers!!


..but there's always the exception - we played 10th and came 13th, our worst placing ever (so far :rolleyes:). How does that fit into your calculations?

As far as I'm concerned, it was just a bad day at the office. I don't live in Lhasa, didn't have shares in Bear Stearns and have got a wonderful wife and family. Life is good.

That Mr Pritchard-Jones panned us is his perogative. I'm not going to pan him in return and I hope the L&SC thread doesn't go the way of some other threads and embark on an adjudicator-bashing spree.

Try and get over it, guys and gals, and let's move on. IF there is a need to change, please accomplish it by serious communication through official channels and with decorum, not here where the World and his wife is watching.

Obviously, we weren't happy with our result, but we'll take it back to the band room to sort out and it certainly won't be at our MD's expense either. End of...

Many congratulations to Ipswich & Norwich Co-op and to my old (and not-so-old) mates at Thundersley, for their results.

And to all the other bands, whether you're pleased with your results or not, thanks for being there and see you next year :clap:.
 
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barnybeebop

Member
We'll continue to have 1 adjudicator per section until enough bands lobby the regional committee to change it, and agree to pay the increased entry fee/ticket prices its likely to cause.

The 1st section points weren't just one point apart. I don't think it really makes much difference though tbh - I personally think all contest should adopt placings-not-points like the Open.

Who were you playing with at the weekend?

I was with Sandhurst.

Not overly disappointed with our result but having listened to only Friary, the other 8 above them must have been awesome and capable of winning the Championship Section too. Did anybody listen to most bands? Be interesting to see what they thought.

Most people I have spoken to have said the prize money is so little to make any band realistically worried about prize money. £200 for top prize, the prize money could be binned to pay for the extra adjudicator.

Very interesting reading about Horsefields correlation stats. It's work in our favour before when we were way below par on the day.
 

lauren

Member
Many congratulations to Ipswich & Norwich Co-op and to my old (and not-so-old) mates at Thundersley, for their results. :clap:.

Thanks for your kind words Geoff... It was good to speak to you yesterday.
Thundersley were very pleased with the result and it looks like we only missed out on promotion by 1 point! Never mind...bring on areas 2008! :p
 

GBH

New Member
I played for Welwyn, to say we are gutted at the result is an understatement...

Still I listened to bands 7-12 and I had them

Redbridge
Assumed A&N (though I didn't hear them)
Zone 1
MK (Brosley)
Staines

Which ironically was pretty close. Zone 1's interpretation was very different to the others I heard but had its merits, shame the sop and horns had one too many errors. MK were very tidy and secure - their sop was a star and really shone though it was a very "safe" interpretation. Staines were the surprise for most I think but with some of the faces I recognised on the stands shouldn't have been - outstandingly well played considering the difficulties they've had. Have to say I wasn't impressed by Bedford at all but without any other reference I couldn't place them.

Hard to know what we did wrong in Welwyn though really. The comments were sparse really and without hearing the recording I can't really comment on the accuracy. They did pretty well match up with the comments I'd heard off someone else so I guess I shouldn't have been surprised. Still, relegation is harsh for any band.

Well done to those who placed, especially Simon who won the horn prize for the day. Having heard it I don't know quite how but very well done anyway ;)

G
 

lauren

Member
Not overly disappointed with our result but having listened to only Friary, the other 8 above them must have been awesome and capable of winning the Championship Section too. Did anybody listen to most bands? Be interesting to see what they thought.
I have to agree. I do believe that Friary were very unlucky with their final placing. Having heard most of the bands that came above Friary I have to say that they weren't all 'awesome' and certainly wouldn't have been able to hold their own in the championship section.
 

The Wherryman

Active Member
My post earlier made it clear that the comments around placings vs draw had nothing to do with adjudicator bashing but are purely an observation. Indeed, this thread is so far refreshingly light on that sort of thing!

I'm sorry if you thought I was pointing in your direction - I wasn't actually pointing anywhere. I was making a general observation indicating that I would much prefer if the L&SC thread didn't go down the route followed by other threads i.e adjudicator-bashing.

It has been mentioned previously on tMP that complaining (on whatever subject) on the forum makes not one jot of difference in the "real world" - but it can tend to give the "real world" a poor impression of the banding world (Yeah, before anyone starts on me, the "banding world" is real as well!!) :p
 

barnybeebop

Member
Performance Assessment Criteria

Haven't read through the entire thread, so apologies if this has been posted, but this is what Alan Morisson has come up with.

http://www.abbadjudicators.org.uk/

Articles pages > PAC Guidelines

All the things you would expect to see in guidelines. If it was all set out on a form ready to go, the job of marking would be made much easier and give greater detail into what was the main weaknesses/strengths. I don't think we had any criticism (I was a little tipsy by that point though) so we must have been brilliant!!

I have done grades when I was younger and more receently diplomas. The report you get from that is quite detailed and usually with much less of a break in between pieces.
 

The Wherryman

Active Member
Thundersley were very pleased with the result and it looks like we only missed out on promotion by 1 point! Never mind...bring on areas 2008! :p

Yes, we missed out as well, by....hmmm, my calculator's blown a fuse. Ho, Hum, look forward to seeing you next year. ;)
 

mjwarman

Member
..but there's always the exception - we played 10th and came 13th, our worst placing ever (so far :rolleyes:).

Thats funny we played 10th and placed 13th also under Mr SPJ........

I was very surprised by the placing and having heard the recording, don't really believe that it warranted 13th, I heard two of the top 4 and many others that finished above, and can safely say i'm confused :confused:

No adjudicator bashing here, I really wouldn't want to do his job, but I think the process to decide points needs to be looked at, every band in the 3rd section was 1 point better or worse than the ones that finished above or below? I don't think so!!! Like someone said earlier, lose the points system and just have placings, like the open.

Also a bit of honesty where soloists are concerned wouldn't have gone a miss, constructive critisism can be very useful in building confidence, saying all soloists played really well when some (including myself) made obvious, silly mistakes is very misleading. I read the childrens adjudication panel article on 4barsrest and there was some really good constructive comments from the kids, we're all grown ups, we can take it!!!

Rant over, finally off my chest, well done to the winners and qualifiers and i'm sure you'll all do the region proud at Harrogate!
 

ryansonel

New Member
I have to agree. I do believe that Friary were very unlucky with their final placing. Having heard most of the bands that came above Friary I have to say that they weren't all 'awesome' and certainly wouldn't have been able to hold their own in the championship section.


isnt i typical how we all compare our performances with other bands and disagree with the aujudicators decision. Lets face it we all know that contesting is a lottery, playing well doesn't necessary mean a winning performance. What I am fed up with is that 1st section bands playing in a sports hall with naff acoustics. Isn't it about time the L&SC committee take note that 1st section should have the same playing respect as the championship section. I doubt for one moment that the committee would ever dream of putting the top section in that sports hall in years to come. Come on L&SC committee, give 1st section bands a chance to play in the Gordon Craig Theatre next year PLEASE!!!!!!!!
 

andywooler

Supporting Member
Come on L&SC committee, give 1st section bands a chance to play in the Gordon Craig Theatre next year PLEASE!!!!!!!!
Why? At the 3rd section draw, the adjudicator, who has judged in the same hall before, commented that itis a good hall for band contests.
 

Chunky

Active Member
isnt i typical how we all compare our performances with other bands and disagree with the aujudicators decision. Lets face it we all know that contesting is a lottery, playing well doesn't necessary mean a winning performance. What I am fed up with is that 1st section bands playing in a sports hall with naff acoustics. Isn't it about time the L&SC committee take note that 1st section should have the same playing respect as the championship section. I doubt for one moment that the committee would ever dream of putting the top section in that sports hall in years to come. Come on L&SC committee, give 1st section bands a chance to play in the Gordon Craig Theatre next year PLEASE!!!!!!!!

The 1st section should have the same playing respect as the Championship section?

All bands irrespective of their section should be shown the same respect.

I am could have fairly certain that if the Gordon Craig Theatre had not been booked out on the Saturday, 3rd & 1st section may have taken place in there.

However we all know what the acoustic is like, we all play in it. Deal with it!
 

The Wherryman

Active Member
Thats funny we played 10th and placed 13th also under Mr SPJ........

I was very surprised by the placing and having heard the recording, don't really believe that it warranted 13th, I heard two of the top 4 and many others that finished above, and can safely say i'm confused :confused: /quote]

No, no, that explains everything. Obviously, Mr S-P had a "senior moment" and got us mixed up. He expected to hear you playing Three Part Invention and us to be playing The Dark Side of the Moon. I feel so much better knowing it was just a silly mistake :p
.
 

Red Elvis

Active Member
Played in the Theatre a couple of years back , and I have to say that the acoustic did not seem drastically better than the gym !

Was talking to our MD about Harrogate , and my recollection of the stage there ( from when I played with Becontree in 2nd Section Finals ) is that its fairly dead acoustically too . Anyone else care to comment ?
 

ryansonel

New Member
Played in the Theatre a couple of years back , and I have to say that the acoustic did not seem drastically better than the gym !


Having played in the top section at Stevenage for many years until this year there is certainly a difference in acoustics between the theatre and the sports hall. Im surprised you haven't noticed the difference!!
 

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