NW Areas Result - What happened? #Regs2016

Seffblatter

New Member
Opinion yes, libel, no.
You used the word Corruption in your OP - now unless you can back that up with fact, then that isn't opinion. So no, it isn't a free country.
Honestly, I'm now out.

Thanks everyone for what was proving to be an interesting thread. I was really enjoying reading the contributions. I love bouncing ideas back and forth and questioning the existing status quo but after the mods reaction and the official statement this morning, I have lost all faith in this platform and I'd like my account to removed please.
 

Pauli Walnuts

Moderator
Staff member
I am saddened to see how the thread has developed, as the various tangents have served to fuel true open discussion.
We are all becoming over-sensitive to generic, well meant observations, too often making them personal (when they are rarely meant to be so!)
Once tarred with being out to cause offence, it is difficult to be heard without bias, even to the point of being socially accepted by one's peers.
I feel that both Wingates and the modrator, have slightly over-reacted to this thread and created the feeling of a witch hunt against the original poster (which was obviously acceptable by mod standards, until today's statement?)
This is where we are losing the ability to share balanced, like-minded subjects without being condemned for individual viewpoints.
Personally, I have never considered the original post representative of Wingates, or their band management's views or beliefs and their name seemed to appear at a 'weak point' in the original poster's judgement.
Keep discussion open and as free as is possible, please tmp, as the site's success depends upon it.
I'm sorry you think I have over-reacted to this thread. And that the Regional Committee and Wingates themselves have also over-reacted. And for over-reacting to the allegation of Corruption in the post.
If you want this forum to survive in a way that meets your different standards, perhaps you should volunteer to be a moderator here.
 

Sydney Fowlcoup

New Member
Apologies that you feel profoundly disappointed with my drivel.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion - tis a free country after all :)
You are not entitled to infer corruption unless you have very strong grounds to do so.
Where is your proof, and are you prepared to name names?
I don't want or need your apologies, but perhaps the band and adjudicators do?
 

BrianT

Member
Just suppose the Regional Committee demanded (via a solicitor maybe) that tMP divulge the identity of 'Seff Blatter' so they could pursue a libel/defamation case against them?
Would tMP defend that poster's anonymity? Or would they do as asked? Is there any 'small print' about how the site operates?
 

Tom-King

Well-Known Member
Just suppose the Regional Committee demanded (via a solicitor maybe) that tMP divulge the identity of 'Seff Blatter' so they could pursue a libel/defamation case against them?
Would tMP defend that poster's anonymity? Or would they do as asked? Is there any 'small print' about how the site operates?


Going back into the dregs of tMP history... If I recall correctly there was a case some years back where a tMP member was prosecuted for actions on tMP and tMP granted police access to required information (naming no names or more specific details).

Whether tMP even knows Seffs true identity I don't know, but I wouldn't rely on them withholding any assistance they were able to provide if there were legal ramifications to keeping silent.
 

philram

Member
Hey I'm a baritone player so less of the inference of intelligence. Yes possibly the most basic concept of corruption and it in no way was meant to ridicule your post , however , the thread was/is regarding the NW area results yesterday , not of the wider infrastructure of banding and to me , maybe mistakenly, it appeared to suggest you were inferring the results were possibly manipulated to suit.
I played yesterday , only band I heard was us (Ashton) and the last page of Faireys performance backstage before I went on so I'm not in a position to agree or disagree with the results. I did before I attended though, expect there to be 2/3 bands out front with a few others running them close and a potential upset if a "named" band didnt perform as expected, and on paper, being a simplistic man that's how it appears to me.
I don't disagree there are unsavoury elements of underhandedness occurring within banding as we've seen over the last few years however to suggest there is corruption on a FIFA scale (as your username suggests) is perhaps slightly over the top, or maybe you should just call in the FBI now?
Grezzer... Ashton were better than Fodens AND Wingates... Just sayin like.
 

Pauli Walnuts

Moderator
Staff member
Going back into the dregs of tMP history... If I recall correctly there was a case some years back where a tMP member was prosecuted for actions on tMP and tMP granted police access to required information (naming no names or more specific details).

Whether tMP even knows Seffs true identity I don't know, but I wouldn't rely on them withholding any assistance they were able to provide if there were legal ramifications to keeping silent.
The site is now owned by an American and is also hosted in the US. Good luck getting anything out of that through the UK legal system.
And no, tMp doesn't know his name - just his IP address.
 

marksmith

Active Member
I'm sorry you think I have over-reacted to this thread. And that the Regional Committee and Wingates themselves have also over-reacted. And for over-reacting to the allegation of Corruption in the post.
If you want this forum to survive in a way that meets your different standards, perhaps you should volunteer to be a moderator here.
With pleasure! How can you even question my standards when a mod should consider ALL viewpoints as valid and remain open to them?
I do agree that written accusations should be substantiated by evidence, unfortunately the heat of the moment prevents cool consideration.
If this thread was/ is so controversial, how was it allowed to enter a public forum?
Overreaction yes, not my 'different standard', just fact.
Free speech is a law of the land, interpretation is personal.
Just saying.
 

Matthew

Active Member
The site is now owned by an American and is also hosted in the US. Good luck getting anything out of that through the UK legal system.
And no, tMp doesn't know his name - just his IP address.

I had just looked this up on a WHOIS before I read your post as I was thinking the same thing...! ;)
 

MoominDave

Well-Known Member
The new Rule 23d quoted above makes it pretty blindingly clear why Wingates felt the need to dissociate themselves from the first post's allegations in no uncertain terms (Hi Adam! Congratulations, btw. Stonking result.). This thread if nothing else demonstrates why this rule is a problem - what's to stop a disgruntled bandsperson signing up, anonymously posting slander and attaching some rival band's name to it in a bid to get them belatedly disqualified? Not a lot, as I see it.

This rule needs substantial rethinking if it isn't to cause more problems than it solves.
 
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Mesmerist

Well-Known Member
Moomin, as usual, I am in admiration of your posts,( to the extent I am almost intimidated by your intelligence). You raise such an interesting point here. The only downside is you may just have given some people not as bright as yourself some ideas on creating a great deal of mischief. You, my dear, would be an excellent choice to be involved on any decision making in the Banding world (and beyond). The Association is obviously reading this thread - sign him up guys!:)
 

Bob Sherunkle

Active Member
I'm a big believer in 2 adjudicators sat out in the open, positioned with the full width of the hall away from each other, with no contact once the contest starts. That's the only way you will get a true adjudication because one or the other will always be senior / more famous / to influence the other.


But how could they check 4BarsRest on their phones if not hidden in a box ?

Love

Bob

(I'M JOKING)
 

Bob Sherunkle

Active Member
Going back into the dregs of tMP history... If I recall correctly there was a case some years back where a tMP member was prosecuted for actions on tMP and tMP granted police access to required information (naming no names or more specific details).

Whether tMP even knows Seffs true identity I don't know, but I wouldn't rely on them withholding any assistance they were able to provide if there were legal ramifications to keeping silent.

Really ?

Prosecuted ?

Are you sure ?

I do remember the previous owner of this site accusing me of being someone else in his postings and mounting a campaign to get me sacked from my part-time work as a lavatory attendant. But he never did like me very much for some reason.
 

MoominDave

Well-Known Member
Yep, someone was. Quite a different set of circumstances to anonymous trolling. Best not dug up, really.
 

Ianroberts

Well-Known Member
Really ?

Prosecuted ?

Are you sure ?

I do remember the previous owner of this site accusing me of being someone else in his postings and mounting a campaign to get me sacked from my part-time work as a lavatory attendant. But he never did like me very much for some reason.


Far better to bring stuff like that into the public domain ! who ? what ? when ? why ?
 

marksmith

Active Member
Just thinking on a slight tangent to the original post.
As we become more able to share our opinions through such media as the internet, does this make institutions more guarded and secretive, and more likely to defend themselves through threats of legal action?
Libel laws are there as a last resort, yes, but are we all too scared to share our opinions, despite best intention?
One thing that is now acknowledged is that all levels of our society suffer forms of corruption and that most people look after no.1.
Individuals and organisations lie;
Be it Government departments, executive officers, or simply an individual who forgets an important deadline at work, they sometimes become economical with the truth, to make someone else seem at fault or incompetent. That's the real world, cynical or not.
Thus, we are more suspicious of peoples' intentions or motives and more likely to react negatively.
If, for example, you or your band is/are a member of an organisation which fails to deliver on it's constitutional commitments to it's membership, continues to charge subscriptions, yet gives the appearance of laying dormant throughout the year, should we not have the right to criticise openly, without fear of retribution? After all, we would merely be stating the facts, not making comment for personal gain.
Sadly, organisations in that situation, prefer to focus their energy on defending their inaction and slurring the critic, rather than taking action to improve their quality of service to the membership. (Yes, I do know this from experience).
So, should we fall into line and accept these experiences 'as banding', or remain a thorn in the side of those who fail in office?
I know where I stand.
 

Pauli Walnuts

Moderator
Staff member
Some interesting points there @marksmith and when it comes to organisations - such as band associations - then people with strong views should get off their butts and get involved to make change happen.
One big problem here though is the main competition that causes public debate is run by an organisation where you cannot do that. Regional Committee are not publicly accountable as they exist only to run the regional event on behalf of the current contest owners. You cannot turn up at meetings, get involved and ultimately get yourself elected like you can with more open associations such as scaba.
So, with verifiable facts in your pocket, be a thorn in their side and do so openly imho - organisations take little heed of anonymous and unsubstantiated comments.
 
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