Masters Champions Relegated

Curious

Member
. I doubt we will be in the Grand Shield long anyway.[/quote]

Great to see such confidence in your band's ability,which of course is fully justified, but even a very good band like Flowers has found it difficult to qualify from this contest!!
 

johnflugel

Active Member
What do we think to my solution:

- British Open Relegation
Bottom two automatic relegation (no average taken into account) - next five bands results judged on best 2 year average results, worst two from that five get relegated as well.

Grand Shield Promotion/Relegation
- Top two qualify (no average taken into account) then bands 3-7 judged on 2 year average results.

Senior Cup & Trophy could operate the same system.

This way, the Open will have the most consistent bands and also will make the Shield qualification less 'flash in the pan'. There have been many bands in the Shield (Flowers the best example I think) who have been consistently good but have not made the illusive top two, where as some winners have been up and down from the Shield to Open like a yo-yo. The strongest bands will be rewarded as well as the 'one-off' winners

What do we think?

John
Rothwell Temps
 

Darth_Tuba

Active Member
Curious said:
. I doubt we will be in the Grand Shield long anyway.

Great to see such confidence in your band's ability,which of course is fully justified, but even a very good band like Flowers has found it difficult to qualify from this contest!![/quote]

Quite correct. The Grand Shield is an extremely hard contest, full of great bands, and I did not say it would be easy, or that we would be back in the Open straight away. I do believe, however, that provided we keep the players we have we have enough to be back in the Open before too long. If you don't believe you're going to win something you never will. I think a major reason for the difficulty of the last few years in the Grand Shield has also been the venue. The Empress Ballroom is one of the worst contesting acoustics around, especially for technical pieces. Lets hope they have the sense to move it to the Opera house where we can hear some notes! :lol:
 

weenie

Member
Curious said:
. I doubt we will be in the Grand Shield long anyway.

Great to see such confidence in your band's ability,which of course is fully justified, but even a very good band like Flowers has found it difficult to qualify from this contest!![/quote]

Curious, We can't even win at Porthcawl! lol :dunno
 

yorkyboy

Member
Its about time that the 'big' bands were relegated from the top contests if they have not performed. There was a similar situation in the Yorkshire Area championship section involving carlton main last year. According to points they should have gone down however they appealed and the yorkshire area comittee decided they were to 'big' to go down (plus i heard a little rumour that they had quite a bit of influence on the panel!!). If you dont get the results you pay the price and that should be the rule for all bands regardless of heritage etc.
 

iggmeister

Member
weenie said:
Great to see such confidence in your band's ability,which of course is fully justified, but even a very good band like Flowers has found it difficult to qualify from this contest!!

Curious, We can't even win at Porthcawl! lol :dunno

Weenie

Has Jammer been logging in under your name again? Is the above really him speaking? I'm suprised we haven't had the "Did you hear us at the Shield..." quotes again!! :wink:

Igg
 

Pythagoras

Active Member
Know its not quite the same as Open/Grand Shield, but Dronfield got relegated from the 3rd section despite our worst result being 14th out of 18, due to new bands in the section finishing below us. Got on with it though and think current system is fair on the whole.

Agree with earlier comment that their has to be a way for bands to get promoted quickly, as there are bands in the 4th section that are so obviously way above 4th that it would be boring for the rest of us if they had to stay in 4th for 3 years just because they are a new band.
 

weenie

Member
iggmeister said:
weenie said:
Great to see such confidence in your band's ability,which of course is fully justified, but even a very good band like Flowers has found it difficult to qualify from this contest!!

Curious, We can't even win at Porthcawl! lol :dunno

Weenie

Has Jammer been logging in under your name again? Is the above really him speaking? I'm suprised we haven't had the "Did you hear us at the Shield..." quotes again!! :wink:

Igg

Did you hear us at the Shield? hehehehehehehehe! :hammer
 

Aidan

Active Member
i think the point was that the two bands in question had acheived the results, and we were questionning the system that decides it...
We didnt play poorly at all, which, if you had heard us, you would know.
 

iggmeister

Member
Not playing poorly isn't good enough for the Open. there are lots of bands that could have gone there and not played poorly. After all, it is supposed to be the best of the best of the best, (with honours!).

I think that is why the audience is so picky and, perhaps sometimes, scathing of performances. The audience pays good money to listen to what are recognised to be the best bands in the country. Looking up afterwards and saying "Well we didn't play poorly..." isn't going to get too many sympathy votes. Not playing poorly is probably okay to stay in the top section but not the Open. The reality is that even when some bands play well in the Open they get demoted.

I heard Besses and it was an okay performance. Very safe. That is all well and good but when the points were added together it wasn't enough. You may have been a bit unfortunate but thats the way it goes.

Igg
 
Quite frankly, I think the best way of promotion and relegation, in all league competitions should be that if you win, or are 2nd you go up; if you are last or 2nd last you go down! Simple really, rather than an aggregate which can tend to cause much frustration.

This would surely help to stabelise each section.

So there you go! WIN: GO UP. LOSE: GO DOWN.

WOO HOO!
 

neiltwist

Active Member
Inspector Gadget said:
Quite frankly, I think the best way of promotion and relegation, in all league competitions should be that if you win, or are 2nd you go up; if you are last or 2nd last you go down! Simple really, rather than an aggregate which can tend to cause much frustration.

This would surely help to stabelise each section.

So there you go! WIN: GO UP. LOSE: GO DOWN.

WOO HOO!

surely not! that would mean the worst bands on the day would go down!
 

Darth_Tuba

Active Member
Nadia said:
i think the point was that the two bands in question had acheived the results, and we were questionning the system that decides it...
We didnt play poorly at all, which, if you had heard us, you would know.

Actually, I wasn't questioning it, and I think we did play quite poorly this year. Dunno about last year, I wasn't keen on the piece and couldn't tell what a good performance was supposed to be like, even after hearing the winning one! Not much point arguing anyway as all has been decided, just like when we won the masters :D :wink:
 
Sounds like the Grand Shield will be a good contest, then. The bands' going down should use it as a motivational tool to improve and work hard, and may even do better in the long run than bands who stayed up and thus thought they had made it and didn't have to work (this has happened in the past, and when the band has finally been relegated their standard had slipped so much they couldn't come back). The aim also should be to get to the top, not just stay in the competition.
 

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