If Tredegar don't manage top 4 at the nationals t was a fluke at the open!

Super Ph

Member
Again i'll ask who are you to slag of any band that makes it to the finals?
What makes these bands 'rubbish' to you?

what gives you the right to label everyone "top class" even though, by your own admission, some are significantly better than others?
 

Kjata

Member
what gives you the right to label everyone "top class" even though, by your own admission, some are significantly better than others?

Because i've played for, listened to, and compared all these bands numerous times...
There is always going to be a handful of significantly 'better' bands because they have some serious pros playing for them, but just because these bands are at the top of ensemble playing, it doesn't mean that ever else is c**p, which is what you are insinuating!!
Oh and for the record i'm fairly sure I didn't label everyone as top class, I argued against your point that anyone other than Dyke, Fodens, Cory ect.... is not a good band, because the bands in the finals all have good players, and play well together... otherwise they wouldn't be at the RAH....
Oh and you still haven't answered my original question for the third time, now that i've done you the courtesy of answering yours, can you now answer mine?
Again i'll ask who are you to slag of any band that makes it to the finals?
What makes these bands 'rubbish' to you?
 
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Kjata

Member
You speak with such authority Paul but with nothing behind it. What do you term as 'top class'?

I ask because considering that the spread of bands at the RAH went from Cory (1st) to NASUWT Riverside (100th)....that is a lot of bands in the 'top class' bracket :rolleyes:

You're right, there is a lot of top class bands, but you still compare them all with the 'top 5 in the rankings' (which obviously has it's own problems, which can be discussed in another thread!), which is a little unfair, considering the amount of truly spectacular pro players that are signed with them.
I think Riverside might be a little disappointed at the fact that you've singled them out to suggest that them making it to the finals means nothing, and they are still not a good band, despite the fact they beat 7 other bands on English Heritage.
 

Super Ph

Member
Because i've played for, listened to, and compared all these bands numerous times...
There is always going to be a handful of significantly 'better' bands

make your mind up - are they top class? or is there in fact a higher class above them?


it doesn't mean that ever else is c**p, which is what you are insinuating!!

i'm not insinuating anything. i can tell a gulf in class when i hear it though.
 

Splitzer

Member
You're right, there is a lot of top class bands, but you still compare them all with the 'top 5 in the rankings' (which obviously has it's own problems, which can be discussed in another thread!), which is a little unfair, considering the amount of truly spectacular pro players that are signed with them.
I think Riverside might be a little disappointed at the fact that you've singled them out to suggest that them making it to the finals means nothing, and they are still not a good band, despite the fact they beat 7 other bands on English Heritage.

I don't think he meant to single out Riverside, but rather the difference in the standards of the areas. One areas champ could be ranked 100, whereas top 10-20 bands in the stronger areas routinely fail to qualify. We all know there are at least 3 regions where the top band may as well book their hotel for next year now. This isn't a criticism of those bands, but rather the quality of those regions. I do think that there are regions where the champ sect winners would struggle to qualify in 1st sect elsewhere, although I'm sure some deluded type will try to say otherwise as is their right;)
 

jonesbp

Member
Having read this thread with interest, I must say I can't believe what utter bull **** some people talk about on here.

OK let me throw my oar in, as some of you will know I play for one of these so called **** bands from the **** area of London. Yes I do agree that the General standard of the bands is not as high as some other areas but for us at the top in our area we can more than hold our own on stage.

Thinking back over the past few years... hmmmm Redbridge winning Butlins, Aveley winning Grand Shield, 4th at Masters for both Zone One and Redbridge.. These are just a few of the contests I could mention where we have significantly outperformed much higher ranked (top class?) bands on a number of occasions (including then current National Champions). We have beaten Yorkshire champions, NW champions, North of England Champions, Scottish Champions and National Champions. Does this mean that our area is any less weak?....No! Does it mean that only **** bands come from **** areas?...Definately not!

As I said , we may not be in the strongest most competetive area in the country but the top bands more than deserve to be at this contest and will I am sure continue to outclass some higher ranked bands for years to come.
 

flash harry

Member
Having read this thread with interest, I must say I can't believe what utter bull **** some people talk about on here.

OK let me throw my oar in, as some of you will know I play for one of these so called **** bands from the **** area of London. Yes I do agree that the General standard of the bands is not as high as some other areas but for us at the top in our area we can more than hold our own on stage.

Thinking back over the past few years... hmmmm Redbridge winning Butlins, Aveley winning Grand Shield, 4th at Masters for both Zone One and Redbridge.. These are just a few of the contests I could mention where we have significantly outperformed much higher ranked (top class?) bands on a number of occasions (including then current National Champions). We have beaten Yorkshire champions, NW champions, North of England Champions, Scottish Champions and National Champions. Does this mean that our area is any less weak?....No! Does it mean that only **** bands come from **** areas?...Definately not!

As I said , we may not be in the strongest most competetive area in the country but the top bands more than deserve to be at this contest and will I am sure continue to outclass some higher ranked bands for years to come.

Well said Sir! :clap:
 

tubaloopy

Member
You're right, there is a lot of top class bands, but you still compare them all with the 'top 5 in the rankings' (which obviously has it's own problems, which can be discussed in another thread!), which is a little unfair, considering the amount of truly spectacular pro players that are signed with them.
I think Riverside might be a little disappointed at the fact that you've singled them out to suggest that them making it to the finals means nothing, and they are still not a good band, despite the fact they beat 7 other bands on English Heritage.
Who are these "truly spectacular pro players" that are signed with the top bands?
 

Jan H

Moderator
Staff member
Please don't use swear words, even when they are removed by the bleeper.
You can check the rules through the link at the top of the page.

Thanks!



Having read this thread with interest, I must say I can't believe what utter bull **** some people talk about on here.

OK let me throw my oar in, as some of you will know I play for one of these so called **** bands from the **** area of London. Yes I do agree that the General standard of the bands is not as high as some other areas but for us at the top in our area we can more than hold our own on stage.

Thinking back over the past few years... hmmmm Redbridge winning Butlins, Aveley winning Grand Shield, 4th at Masters for both Zone One and Redbridge.. These are just a few of the contests I could mention where we have significantly outperformed much higher ranked (top class?) bands on a number of occasions (including then current National Champions). We have beaten Yorkshire champions, NW champions, North of England Champions, Scottish Champions and National Champions. Does this mean that our area is any less weak?....No! Does it mean that only **** bands come from **** areas?...Definately not!

As I said , we may not be in the strongest most competetive area in the country but the top bands more than deserve to be at this contest and will I am sure continue to outclass some higher ranked bands for years to come.
 

tubaloopy

Member
Having read this thread with interest, I must say I can't believe what utter bull **** some people talk about on here.

OK let me throw my oar in, as some of you will know I play for one of these so called **** bands from the **** area of London. Yes I do agree that the General standard of the bands is not as high as some other areas but for us at the top in our area we can more than hold our own on stage.

Thinking back over the past few years... hmmmm Redbridge winning Butlins, Aveley winning Grand Shield, 4th at Masters for both Zone One and Redbridge.. These are just a few of the contests I could mention where we have significantly outperformed much higher ranked (top class?) bands on a number of occasions (including then current National Champions). We have beaten Yorkshire champions, NW champions, North of England Champions, Scottish Champions and National Champions. Does this mean that our area is any less weak?....No! Does it mean that only **** bands come from **** areas?...Definately not!

As I said , we may not be in the strongest most competetive area in the country but the top bands more than deserve to be at this contest and will I am sure continue to outclass some higher ranked bands for years to come.
How have the LSC bands done at the Open?
Only Aveley and Newham have appeared in the last 10 years, and then only twice.
LSC bands have been in the top 10 once in the last ten years at the National Championships.
The odd swallow does not make a summer.
 
Lets throw a different scenario here: If many of the pro musicians in London made up a brass band I 'm sure it would be pretty good. (I am not from LSC area). There is a lot rubbish being put on this thread and maybe I am contributing to it? What a sad bunch of individuals to be arguing over such an issue. We are dinasaurs (me included) - some of you need to lighten up.
 

TheMusicMan

tMP Founder
Staff member
Lets throw a different scenario here: If many of the pro musicians in London made up a brass band I 'm sure it would be pretty good. (I am not from LSC area). There is a lot rubbish being put on this thread and maybe I am contributing to it? What a sad bunch of individuals to be arguing over such an issue. We are dinasaurs (me included) - some of you need to lighten up.
Sense, total sense. :clap:
 

Bob Sherunkle

Active Member
How have the LSC bands done at the Open?
Only Aveley and Newham have appeared in the last 10 years, and then only twice.
LSC bands have been in the top 10 once in the last ten years at the National Championships.
The odd swallow does not make a summer.

Dear comrades

I have had a rare moment of clarity after reading jonesbp's passionate outburst.

Bands such as Aveley and Newham, Redbridge and Grimethorpe have as their inspiration, motivation, raison d'etre even, the desire to beat the elite handful of bands in a contest. To have a chance of doing that, the members of such bands put in a staggering amount of time, effort, enthusiasm and cash. Careers, relationships and families are sacrificed. You first have to get together some half decent players and someone has to make sure they all turn up in the same place at the right time, in a clean shirt and preferably sober.

Sometimes due to a good day, other bands slipping up, dodgy adjudication or whatever these bands are successful. Mostly they are not but if they didn't dry their tears and try all over again next time their wouldn't be any point having the contests. Also,when would you go for a wee and a cup of tea?

So lets get behind the underdogs I say. A swallow now and again is all they ask for.

Bob "once beat Fodens" Sherunkle
 

scotchgirl

Active Member
When we won our area (on Isaiah 40) we were 'head and shoulders above the rest of the field' and won by two clear points....

Now by no stretch of the imagination would we claim that we are up there with the big boys of banding, and that performance of that test piece took a LOT individually from each player in the band...but it wasn't a flukey result, it was well-earned and well-deserved.

It saddens me that because a band does well and upsets a few of the so-called 'big name bands' that their well-earned result is somehow 'lessened' by calling it a fluke. Why not, instead of saying 'oh x,y,z band must've had a bad day' or 'the adjudicator was deaf'...or 'the acoustic of the hall benefitted their particular style' or whatever rubbish reason for justifying their win........say this instead 'brilliant, a band has fought hard for a win at a prestigious contest, playing amazingly, putting their heart and soul into the music, and fantastic...they won! Amazing for banding in general, and giving us all the hope that we could manage that as well'....????

Stop being negative and be (shocker) positive!! :)
 

tenortuba

Member
It saddens me that because a band does well and upsets a few of the so-called 'big name bands' that their well-earned result is somehow 'lessened' by calling it a fluke. Why not, instead of saying 'oh x,y,z band must've had a bad day' or 'the adjudicator was deaf'...or 'the acoustic of the hall benefitted their particular style' or whatever rubbish reason for justifying their win...

Stop being negative and be (shocker) positive!! :)

Slightly different to the argument happening on this thread, but I think you raise another point here - 'adjudicator was deaf'. How old are some of these adjudicators?! I'm sure some of them were fine musicians when they were younger, but the majority seem to be OAP's! When will they be replaced? Seems to me they'll keep going to the end, wouldn't matter if they had alzheimers. Perhaps one or two of them do, they're old enough for it!
 

Jan H

Moderator
Staff member
Slightly different to the argument happening on this thread, but I think you raise another point here - 'adjudicator was deaf'. How old are some of these adjudicators?! I'm sure some of them were fine musicians when they were younger, but the majority seem to be OAP's! When will they be replaced? Seems to me they'll keep going to the end, wouldn't matter if they had alzheimers. Perhaps one or two of them do, they're old enough for it!
We have had that discussion many times before. Let's leave it out of this thread.
Start a new thread about it if you like.

Thanks!
 

Super Ph

Member
Thinking back over the past few years... hmmmm Redbridge winning Butlins, Aveley winning Grand Shield, 4th at Masters for both Zone One and Redbridge.. These are just a few of the contests I could mention where we have significantly outperformed much higher ranked (top class?) bands on a number of occasions (including then current National Champions)...
...the top bands more than deserve to be at this contest and will I am sure continue to outclass some higher ranked bands for years to come.

i think you might be confusing the odd lucky result in mid-table with "outclassing higher ranked bands". however, contests would be boring without the odd contest within a contest like this.


Lets throw a different scenario here: If many of the pro musicians in London made up a brass band I 'm sure it would be pretty good. (I am not from LSC area). There is a lot rubbish being put on this thread and maybe I am contributing to it? What a sad bunch of individuals to be arguing over such an issue. We are dinasaurs (me included) - some of you need to lighten up.

it has been tried and, apart from showing that good players on two rehearsals can beat bad players, was more or less a flop. i don't really see the relevance though?
 

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