Hi, new trumpet player (well potential trumpet player anyway!)
- Thread starter MRA-28
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MRA-28
New Member
Thanks Jack, it is typical of me to choose trumpet, the bad boy of the brass world! I'll do a bit of research before I open my mouth to change feet and ask the obvious question....
I was going to go for the trombone but I don't like reading bass clef, I have to think about it too much.
Anyway I've not actually bought anything yet so could keep my options open, cornet maybe but I may go and blow a few see if I can get a peep out of the damn thing first.
I was going to go for the trombone but I don't like reading bass clef, I have to think about it too much.
Anyway I've not actually bought anything yet so could keep my options open, cornet maybe but I may go and blow a few see if I can get a peep out of the damn thing first.
Jack E
Well-Known Member
Okay, have to rush at this point, as I'm on my way out, but I would like to offer the following for you to consider.
If you want to play in a brass band - as distinct from a jazz band, concert band or orchestra - bear in mind that brass bands do not include trumpets in their line-up; we use cornets, for their more mellow sound.
Secondly, if you're considering playing trombone, music for tenor trombones in brass bands is always written in treble clef; as far as I know (others can give you a definite answer on this) the only instrument in a brass band for which music is written in the bass clef is the bass trombone.
Thirdly, one poster on here mentioned (a long while back, and I can't remember who it was) that when a beginner joins his band, even if they say "I want to play a such and such", he invariably gets out a whole range of instruments for them to try - and he said that, in the majority of cases, the instrument they choose is not what they first said they wanted to play! Make of that what you will - but I think it's worth considering.
HTH, and let us know how you get on. With best regards,
Jack
PS - don't worry about your age, Martyn; I had no musical background at all, and I didn't start on baritone horn till I was 68!
If you want to play in a brass band - as distinct from a jazz band, concert band or orchestra - bear in mind that brass bands do not include trumpets in their line-up; we use cornets, for their more mellow sound.
Secondly, if you're considering playing trombone, music for tenor trombones in brass bands is always written in treble clef; as far as I know (others can give you a definite answer on this) the only instrument in a brass band for which music is written in the bass clef is the bass trombone.
Thirdly, one poster on here mentioned (a long while back, and I can't remember who it was) that when a beginner joins his band, even if they say "I want to play a such and such", he invariably gets out a whole range of instruments for them to try - and he said that, in the majority of cases, the instrument they choose is not what they first said they wanted to play! Make of that what you will - but I think it's worth considering.
HTH, and let us know how you get on. With best regards,
Jack
PS - don't worry about your age, Martyn; I had no musical background at all, and I didn't start on baritone horn till I was 68!
David Broad
Active Member
You might better off on something bigger than Trumpet, I played Principal Cornet, Trumpet and Sop in my 20s and 30s but time takes its toll and at 60+ I find a Baritone much easier and more fun these days.
As said above the only Brass Band instrument in Bass Clef is the Bass Trombone. Everything else is written in Treble clef to be played by Eb or Bb instruments. I would give a couple of local bands a shout and see what they advise.
As said above the only Brass Band instrument in Bass Clef is the Bass Trombone. Everything else is written in Treble clef to be played by Eb or Bb instruments. I would give a couple of local bands a shout and see what they advise.
Of course you could visit a big music shop in Leeds and they’ll possibly be happy to sell you something there and then, in my experience most shops are only interested in a sale and have no interest in what the customer’s actual needs are - sales staff have targets to meet and businesses have overheads to cover, etc. I have no experience of Band Supplies and so no comment on them in particular is intended.
For what it is worth I really think that you need to identify some groups who you might end up playing with and then go and talk to them before buying anything. Brass Bands will often lend you an instrument for nothing or a low cost and can help you find tuition to learn how to play the darn thing. They will also be likely to offer you a wide range of instruments to try and to listen to too. Finally there’s little point in learning a Trumpet if there’s no vacancies in the Trumpet sections (Cornet actually) of your local Brass Bands etc. If possible then it’s best to initially settle on something that there is a demand for within the music groups open to you.
For what it’s worth Tenor Trombones in Brass Bands do play in Treble Clef, in Wind Bands and Orchestras all low brass (Basses, Trombones, Euphoniums and Baritones play in Bass Clef and I found Bass Clef a right royal pain but many others have no trouble). If you fancy the sound of a Trombone then join a Brass Band and play it in treble clef.
Jack E
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the confirmation, David.
MRA-28
New Member
So after a few months of life getting in the way I'm back in the room and now looking at getting started with a trombone having brushed up my bass clef reading on piano a wee tad..... I'm thinking pbone to start and see how it goes. From what I've sussed out the best modification would be a brass / metal mouthpiece as opposed to the standard plastic one.
Jack E
Well-Known Member
@MRA-28
From what other people have told me, trying to learn trombone from scratch without any face to face help is a tough row to hoe - and that certainly matches my own experience so far. Allowing for time off for major heart surgery and various complications, I'd had about two years on baritone before I made the switch to trombone just over a month ago - and it's still not easy to get the hang of the various positions.
Having put a lot of work into things like sight reading, building up my embouchure strength, breath control and so on certainly helped - a LOT; I'm also having lessons from our band's bass trombonist, and from a private tutor who plays trombone himself, yet it's still a very steep learning curve. As it is, I'm making steady progress, and I'm very pleased with the way it's coming together, but I do suggest that you try and find a tutor to help you on your way. Trying to get the hang of the various slide positions is much, much harder than using valves - and I'm absolutely certain that without the help of my tutors, I would still be struggling to play a reasonably accurate C Major scale, let alone play with the junior band.
Re. the P-bone; there is another make, called Tromba, who do a trombone made in ABS plastic - and that might be worth consideration. If you look on YouTube, you can find reviews on both. The impression I've got from the review I've seen suggests that the current design of P-bones is a big improvement on the originals (a point to bear in mind if you were thinking of buying a second-hand one on E-bay or the like), but that the reviewers consider the Tromba to be better than the P-bone.
If you can't find a band who teach learners, or a tutor, it's worth putting the word out on here; that's how I made contact with my private tutor.
HTH, and keep us posted on how it goes.
From what other people have told me, trying to learn trombone from scratch without any face to face help is a tough row to hoe - and that certainly matches my own experience so far. Allowing for time off for major heart surgery and various complications, I'd had about two years on baritone before I made the switch to trombone just over a month ago - and it's still not easy to get the hang of the various positions.
Having put a lot of work into things like sight reading, building up my embouchure strength, breath control and so on certainly helped - a LOT; I'm also having lessons from our band's bass trombonist, and from a private tutor who plays trombone himself, yet it's still a very steep learning curve. As it is, I'm making steady progress, and I'm very pleased with the way it's coming together, but I do suggest that you try and find a tutor to help you on your way. Trying to get the hang of the various slide positions is much, much harder than using valves - and I'm absolutely certain that without the help of my tutors, I would still be struggling to play a reasonably accurate C Major scale, let alone play with the junior band.
Re. the P-bone; there is another make, called Tromba, who do a trombone made in ABS plastic - and that might be worth consideration. If you look on YouTube, you can find reviews on both. The impression I've got from the review I've seen suggests that the current design of P-bones is a big improvement on the originals (a point to bear in mind if you were thinking of buying a second-hand one on E-bay or the like), but that the reviewers consider the Tromba to be better than the P-bone.
If you can't find a band who teach learners, or a tutor, it's worth putting the word out on here; that's how I made contact with my private tutor.
HTH, and keep us posted on how it goes.
As it will be your only instrument could I suggest that you avoid going for the cheap option of a plastic Trombone and go for a second hand metal one instead? It will serve you better though plastic Trombones do have a value in other circumstances.
Of course you have your reasons for going it alone and for not taking up the suggestion of joining a Brass Band. I did a quick search for you ( Brass Bands Map - Brass Band Results ) and you’re certainly not short on bands in your part of the world.
I'd recommend avoiding a pbone. A used brass trombone could probably be picked up for not much more and would be an infinitely superior instrument.
I don't play trombone myself, but imagine it would be hellishly difficult to teach yourself. At least with valves you know instantly if it is open or closed, a slide position is much more down to experience.
Rather than buy anything, definitely contact a local band or three. They generally fall over themselves to assist any new players. Despite the competition of banding, the vast majority have good relationships with neighbouring bands so could definitely advise on your best options.
If you're looking to join a band, bear in mind that if you can play a valved instrument, switching to another valved instrument is not the hurdle it would be switching to or from a trombone.
I used to teach some beginners in my teens. We used to start them all on a cornet mainly for ease of handling, those that didn't take to it was easily would move up to something bigger.
Brass instruments are like Harry Potter's wand in that they tend to choose the player rather than the player chooses an instrument.
You definitely want to try at least a cornet, baritone tuba and trombone if possible. Chances are that one will just feel like it's a better fit than the others. Then maybe go for something inbetween.
The flugelhorn is my first choice, played it in my youth for several years. Unfortunately, with bands usually only having one I ended up on cornet on my recent return.
I don't play trombone myself, but imagine it would be hellishly difficult to teach yourself. At least with valves you know instantly if it is open or closed, a slide position is much more down to experience.
Rather than buy anything, definitely contact a local band or three. They generally fall over themselves to assist any new players. Despite the competition of banding, the vast majority have good relationships with neighbouring bands so could definitely advise on your best options.
If you're looking to join a band, bear in mind that if you can play a valved instrument, switching to another valved instrument is not the hurdle it would be switching to or from a trombone.
I used to teach some beginners in my teens. We used to start them all on a cornet mainly for ease of handling, those that didn't take to it was easily would move up to something bigger.
Brass instruments are like Harry Potter's wand in that they tend to choose the player rather than the player chooses an instrument.
You definitely want to try at least a cornet, baritone tuba and trombone if possible. Chances are that one will just feel like it's a better fit than the others. Then maybe go for something inbetween.
The flugelhorn is my first choice, played it in my youth for several years. Unfortunately, with bands usually only having one I ended up on cornet on my recent return.
David Broad
Active Member
I reckon a good used Trom from a reputable "Band Supplier" (hint) is the optimum. Make sure the slide is unblemished and slides really freely. We have a Sovereign which has a tiny blemish on one tube and is effectively scrap. Trom is probably the easiest Brass Instrument to play if you understand the Harmonic scale and have a good ear. I can't play Trom but I can pick one up and busk hymn tunes and melodies. Playing with others comes down to latent ability, good ear, good rhythm. I have had players who can play beautifully in their own bathroom who can't keep in time or tune. Worst failing is from Pianists and String players trying trom. They often cant get the hang of shifting the slide before hitting the note, so rasp into every slide position change or play a semitone behind everyone else, Arrggghh!
Troms are much easier to play in the higher ranges with more slide positions available for each note. which doesn't help raw learners much.
What ever you buy there is a good chance you will want to change it, so treat it as a short term investment then when you are happy with your position in the Band trade up. Band Supplies (Leeds) are really ace, they got a new Brass Trom silver plated for us to suit our sponsor as we didn't fancy the Silvertronic soft silver bell alternative and saved us about £750 into the bargain.
Troms are much easier to play in the higher ranges with more slide positions available for each note. which doesn't help raw learners much.
What ever you buy there is a good chance you will want to change it, so treat it as a short term investment then when you are happy with your position in the Band trade up. Band Supplies (Leeds) are really ace, they got a new Brass Trom silver plated for us to suit our sponsor as we didn't fancy the Silvertronic soft silver bell alternative and saved us about £750 into the bargain.
MRA-28
New Member
Thanks, yes I probably envisage, whats the word, a few unintentional acciaccaturas hunting for notes a semi tone either side, and the squiggly trill lines (what ever they're called)...... but hey ho will never know unless I give it a go.
Jack E
Well-Known Member
Agreed, David:- I found it felt really weird at first; playing a piece clearly marked andante - yet still having to move the slide like greased lightning to get from low D to low C without that unwanted slur!
MRA-28
New Member
Hi guys, I bought a Jiggs p bone a few weeks ago and have steadily been getting to grips with it.
For the first half hour it was laughable but after a couple of weeks I’m playing the g major scale reasonably well now and it gets easier each time I play it.
I downloaded an online course with Christian Overton and am steadily working through it. The p bone came with two plastic mouth pieces one small bore and one a larger bore, it is the clear plastic larger bore I have more joy with and maybe thought of getting a metal one but I looked on line and there are a lot to choose from that I know nothing about.
Overall the slide positions weren’t as awkward as I thought but like someone stated before I’m making adjustments by ear so hoping to get more accurate in time to avoid the slurish sounding semi tones.
For the first half hour it was laughable but after a couple of weeks I’m playing the g major scale reasonably well now and it gets easier each time I play it.
I downloaded an online course with Christian Overton and am steadily working through it. The p bone came with two plastic mouth pieces one small bore and one a larger bore, it is the clear plastic larger bore I have more joy with and maybe thought of getting a metal one but I looked on line and there are a lot to choose from that I know nothing about.
Overall the slide positions weren’t as awkward as I thought but like someone stated before I’m making adjustments by ear so hoping to get more accurate in time to avoid the slurish sounding semi tones.