Why are so many people anti the top bands? If there's so little support from within then what chance have we got? Surely a good number of banders would jump at the chance to play for a band like Grimethorpe if they were able. Yes, players receive cash in some cases and some bands get great deals on new instruments but so what? Wouldn't most of us if we could??
"Grimethorpe Colliery Band in danger of folding" ?
- Thread starter iancwilx
- Start date
kennywenny
Member
I think what may have got a few people miffed is how a band can have such a massive financial income and still plead poverty (even if it is a publicity stunt ) while many other bands including many top bands earn a fraction of that and still survive . Just a thought
to be honest, the criticism on here just highlights our shirt sightedness, and helps to explain why we're slowly collapsing in on ourselves.
grimethorpe is the single most influencial band with regards to attracting an audience outside the normal brass band set. Our reaction to them trying to attract more investment is.. 'well so and so beat them last year at a contest..' (so?!! No one outside brass bands cares about contests.. We're completely out of touch). And 'they should just be surviving like the rest of us'... Yeah that's constructive! Lets make sure everyone is in a mess, we can all go down together then!
grimethorpe is the single most influencial band with regards to attracting an audience outside the normal brass band set. Our reaction to them trying to attract more investment is.. 'well so and so beat them last year at a contest..' (so?!! No one outside brass bands cares about contests.. We're completely out of touch). And 'they should just be surviving like the rest of us'... Yeah that's constructive! Lets make sure everyone is in a mess, we can all go down together then!
Ianroberts
Well-Known Member
Well, the sides of your shirt are of no more importance to us than your usual moanings / lectures
sorry penny dropped.
grausue
Member
If you are right about this (and quite frankly I have seen no reason to believe that you would be), then we really ought to educate our audiences to experience and appreciate a more inclusive, less gender biased example of our glorious tradition. Perpetuating out of date ideologies of bygone years leads us into introspection and alienates the general public. Unwillingness to show change and progress also denies us access to the public purse, regardless of how much good a band will do in the community. It's unsurprising that the Arts Council doesn't want to be seen to overly support brass bands if a band with just the one female member "is the single most influential (my spelling correction) band" in the nation. I've no problem with Grimethorpe's membership at all, but let's not kid ourselves that it is nor should it be a representative organization of the wider banding community.
Any agenda on female membership (or even representation of heritage) is potentially valid on a wider note, but it doesn't affect that fact that Grimethorpe ARE the single most important band for external audiences. This isn't opinion, it’s just is the way it is. They perform more than any other band to the public, they have the highest profile outside of brass bands. (Brighouse also have a high profile name outside us banders, and potentially also Dyke, but don't have anywhere near the level of public exposure as Grimethorpe - we are guilty within bands of often only thinking from a point of view of contests, but there's only ourselves that take any notice of these).
We don't pay for Grimethorpe, it's their money (or from whatever investors they attract). If anyone believes that someone else should have a shot at this, then they should go and try to do it. Rather than pull down the band that is currently there. Because if we achieved this "get yourselves doing 3 concerts, paying subs etc" badgering, all we achieve is bring everyone into some the same insular ever decreasing circle.
They aren't there by our permission, they have continually worked hard with an exhaustive concert schedule and marketing that most bands would dream of. Now I personally prefer some of the more cutting edge stuff that some other bands are striving for, but that's just me. At the end of the day, we should be grateful that there is at least one band keeping the outside world in some way engaged. How they do it is their call, If we think it should be done differently, we should go and do it ourselves rather than griping about them. We sometimes forget that just because we contest a lot, it isn’t just some sport, where everyone else is the enemy. Isn't it about time we started supporting all the various aspirations of our leading lights? If Grimethorpe did have to abandon their massive concert schedule, it would benefit no one.
grausue
Member
Facts, please! :clap:
if you're not already aware if grimethorpes public profile and the massive schedule of concerts that they undertake each year then may i politely suggest you might not be in an ideal place to criticise them. Simply calling for facts may be a nice attempt at ironic sarcasm, but its a little self defeating in this instance.
grausue
Member
grausue
Member
Corrine...........it MIGHT be you!
Will the Sec
Active Member
Are you a big fan of the Argentinian President, then?
It seems that most of the critics of Grimethorpe are probably members of boc silver band in the 10th section - pure jealousy. The constant thing about female membership is getting boring. They accept female players - end of story. When will the crying end, do they have to be 50% wimmin, or 100% with Milli-tant as MD? It would perhaps be nice if some of the aforementioned members of boc silver cast a critical eye over the diversity of their own bands before having a cheap shot at Grimey. I don't particularly like the whole brassed off thing or think it does us any favours, I also don't understand why Grimey should have got the national outpouring of grief in the early 90's when so many other colliery bands slipped away unnoticed. The fact is though that they have played the mining sympathy vote card very well over the years, and are probably bandings most marketable product.
jockinafrock
Active Member
Therein lies the problem though... To market yourself successfully you have to look at what's going on in the world around you and, where necessary, change with the times and evolve. I always found Grimey to be one of the most listenable-to bands, but I fear they haven't moved with the times, and appear to cling onto the likes of the old 'brassed off' faithful pieces. If we continue to publicise our movement with the same old stuff (I actually love the brassed off music I hasten to add), then the world's perspective of us will never change. The media will continue to portray a cloth cap image, and we will continue to moan that we are not taken seriously by the more so-called high-brow musicians.
Bands and soloists are doing what they can to attract audiences worldwide ie David Childs, Les Neish, Steven Mead et al travel worldwide showing their talents, while never forgetting their brass band roots. Fairey's have done ACID Brass, Dyke go all over the place, Foden's have embraced some of the best contemporary composers in the likes of Andy Scott and Peter Meechan, our beloved Youth Bands continue to delight us with their musicianship, our grass roots bands work tirelessly to earn a decent living, and Grimey has, well, stayed the same.
It's only us, the bands people, who cause a fuss over registrations, player moves, morons on twitter, etc. The public aren't interested in those issues,which seem to keep us in a perpetual dark age. Unfortunately the media hones in on our unfortunate 'faux pas' and it makes what they think is good reading - it also stops us convincing the world at large that we are a movement to be taken seriously. Grimey aren't daft - any publicity is good publicity, and I'm sure that the band'll be around for years to come. Unfortunately, the band has to go back to talking about it's 'brassed off' heritage, and that's how the media, and the wider world, will continue to see us.
cshimmon
Member
OH NO! I really hope not...!!!
grausue
Member
Yes, you are right. My post wasn't intended to denigrate Grimethorpe in any way; there seems to be no reason that they should be assumed to bear the brunt of representing us to Joe Public. The point I was trying to make (not very well, evidently) was that we could have some sort of persuasive influence over what Mr and Mrs Everyman think of us. We could, in fact, present a new and exciting face of the brass band world if we wanted to. We don't have to believe that "it's like that because it's like that".
I think the biggest issue is an ageing audience. I went to see Black Dyke on sunday and have seen them many times before. I have also seen Grimethorpe many times before too. Both are fantastic bands. However what struck me more than ever was the age of the audience. In my early 40's I was made to feel positively young. i would say the average age was not in the 60's but probably 70's.
i could see one sub 21 year old.
the whole movement needs to shake up and engage the younger audience.
i could see one sub 21 year old.
the whole movement needs to shake up and engage the younger audience.