English Nationals - Why.....

themusicalrentboy

Active Member
I would say it's a very valid excuse, but then banding isn't the be-all and end-all of my life. What if someone smacks you in the face and you never play again, and have deserted all your family and friends for banding....?

I don't think Bayerd needs to justify his position - if he thinks the commitment is too much for his family to take then that's his prerogative. It's certainly not down to any keyboard warrior to tell him how much his commitment is lacking.
 

Firm-but-fair

New Member
Keyboard warrior!

I would say it's a very valid excuse, but then banding isn't the be-all and end-all of my life. What if someone smacks you in the face and you never play again, and have deserted all your family and friends for banding....?

I don't think Bayerd needs to justify his position - if he thinks the commitment is too much for his family to take then that's his prerogative. It's certainly not down to any keyboard warrior to tell him how much his commitment is lacking.
Rubbish!

You've completely missed the point

The point is not about 'banding being the be-all and end-all' as you put it, it's simply about honouring commitments

If he thinks the commitment is too much for his family, then this is a decision that needs to be made before committing to do the contest in the first place!

A huge amount of time, money & effort goes into organising an event like this & those who undertake all the hard work on behalf of all the entrants, deserve better treatment - simple as that!

& this kind of nonsense certainly shouldn't be proffered as some lame excuse as to why all of a sudden, at such at late stage, you can't honour an important commitment

Still, thanks for your effort.........

Love

The Keyboard Warrior
xx
 

nigeb12

Member
A rather typical English banders view on the domestic contest scene yours!
Happy to have private concerns/individuals run the major events, then you whinge when they don`t listen or do as you wish!
It's an English bander's view on an English contest. The organisers at Cambridge did listen to bands though, so not sure you're correct with your 2nd sentence. Oh, and I wasn't whingeing, merely making an observation. But I guess you're entitled to make sweeping statements if you wish.
 

themusicalrentboy

Active Member
Rubbish!

You've completely missed the point

The point is not about 'banding being the be-all and end-all' as you put it, it's simply about honouring commitments

If he thinks the commitment is too much for his family, then this is a decision that needs to be made before committing to do the contest in the first place!

A huge amount of time, money & effort goes into organising an event like this & those who undertake all the hard work on behalf of all the entrants, deserve better treatment - simple as that!

& this kind of nonsense certainly shouldn't be proffered as some lame excuse as to why all of a sudden, at such at late stage, you can't honour an important commitment

Still, thanks for your effort.........

Love

The Keyboard Warrior
xx
And I suppose you know when Bayerd made his concerns known to his band? I am going to stick to my guns on this - I very much doubt that Bayerd would have just dropped his band in it and/or been a sheep at the last minute with 'family concerns'.

Anyway, back to the point.... I think the amount of withdrawals surely sends a clear message to the organisers that this contest is neither wanted or needed. There have been plenty of suggestions already about qualifying for the Euros, but not having had any experience of that level I can't really comment on what the best move would be.
 

brassbandmaestro

Active Member
Quite agree there, Chris. I say, what others have said, either from the National finals, the highest placed band from each of the four countries in the UK, go to europe.
 
It's an English bander's view on an English contest. The organisers at Cambridge did listen to bands though, so not sure you're correct with your 2nd sentence. Oh, and I wasn't whingeing, merely making an observation. But I guess you're entitled to make sweeping statements if you wish.

It`s just that the English top flight banders mantra of "Oi you, organise me a contest and if it`s **** I won`t turn up!" is beginning to wear a bit thin!
 

nigeb12

Member
Quite agree there, Chris. I say, what others have said, either from the National finals, the highest placed band from each of the four countries in the UK, go to europe.
The problem, if that's the right word, is that it offers English bands only 1 opportunity to qualify. That's a big reason why it was hoped the Masters winners would be invited.

I think that finances now play a more significant part in the decision to attend or not. The kudos of winning/taking part in the Eoros is outweighed by the costs of competing not at 1, but 2 contests (Euro and Masters). Alot of bands seem to be saying it simply isnt worth it.
 

Anno Draconis

Well-Known Member
this year has seen an unprecedented amount of withdrawals and I believe this is down the the piece chosen.
:confused: Are you serious? In nearly 28 years of banding I've never, ever, known a band withdraw from a contest because of the test piece. Have you? There are plenty of rock-hard pieces - Music of the Spheres, Titan's Progress, Harrison's Dream - and I don't remember dozens of withdrawals from the Masters of Butlins when the latter was picked.

And Eden is full of music, you're just not looking hard enough :rolleyes:

To pull out with a month to go? Starting to have a look at the piece? What do you think? :rolleyes:
Same answer.

Personally I think those bands that have withdrawn at such late notice and therefore not giving the BFBB the chance to replace them with other bands (that are possibly chomping at the bit to have a go) should be penalised and not be invited back - IMHO!!!! The bands knew the test piece, the date, the venue etc etc months ago when they where originally invited - if they couldn't do the contest for whatever reasons they are now giving they shouldn't have accepted the invite in the first place!
Fair point, although I don't agree with it - things change, and financial priorities particularly, especially in unsponsored bands. That's not a dig at anyone, just an observation that those bands who have to pay their own way in the top section sometimes have harder choices to make.

Obviously, there's all sorts of nonsense going on behind the scenes in this unprecedented, widespread & utter undermining of a contest so close to the event
But please!
Do try to come up with something a little bit better than this complete drivel, for your very questionable role in these ridiculous shenanigans
blah blah blah.....

What a complete pile of toss!

With regards this pathetic, my family are more important than band nonsense, which you present as justification for not honouring an important commitment, is this some kind of sudden realisation for you?
Sounds totally hypocritical to me & like a feeble excuse
Unfortunately, your puerile attempt to try to excuse very poor behaviour hasn't done the trick..........
Grow up!
blah blah.... great, yet another gobby troll. Who are you, and from which fish shop did you acquire that mahoosive chip on your shoulder?

Come back if/when you've got a point to make, rather than just ripping into people anonymously.
 
Have to disagree, circumstances can change quite dramatically, not all bands have enough in the kitty to ride out the tough times we are currently in and to go to these contests knowing full well that they will be losing money and not all bands receive as substantial a sponsorship as others.

It was a tough decision for our band, as i am sure it was for all who have turned it down. Anyone who knows what wire are about and their record will know we really want to play against "the big boys", but we just can't afford it at this juncture. Nothing to do with kudos, purely a financial decision.

Hopefully the organisation will have a more rounded view on future invites than some being voiced on here (if the contest is still going!)
Durham been moved closer to Warrington in the last couple of weeks then. Always thought Preston was closer to Warrington and cheaper to get to. Hee Hee
 

Firm-but-fair

New Member
Double standards!

What happened to 51 to 54?

In particular, what happened to my post?

This being the post that repsonded to the personal attacks made against me in 48 & 49

Of course, these were made by people who seem to be providing some kind of financial support to this 'forum' & maybe this affords them the right to pick on who they want to?

In what way is the following any worse than post 48 & why has it been removed, whilst the original attack sits there for all to see?



Originally Posted by KMJ Recordings

Best thing to do with trolls is not feed them........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anno Draconis

blah blah.... great, yet another gobby troll. Who are you, and from which fish shop did you acquire that mahoosive chip on your shoulder?

Come back if/when you've got a point to make, rather than just ripping into people anonymously.




Ouch!

Feels like I'm being ganged up on here by two forum heavyweights - over 5,500 posts between you.........

Wow!

Furthermore, you don't feel the need to post anonymously or have any embarrassment regarding your banding profiles - good on you!

An interesting observation for you is that it appears the people who've actually been there & done it repeatedly at the very highest level, never seem to feel the need to fill in the profile & let everyone know who they are

For example, on this thread, take the loopy tuba, nigeb & toby h - any evidence of their heavyweight banding status?

Certainly not.............

Seems like when you've been there & done it, you don't feel the need to convince anyone by way of your profile

As for you two forum heavyweights, your profiles let us know exactly what you've achieved at the highest level..........

Now, if I get chance, I'll check thro those 5,500+ posts to get a better sense of your venerated insights and to see how to avoid any future issues with blah, blah, blah.........

As for making a point, I would have thought this was blatantly obvious, irrespective of your intellect/talent, or any lack thereof - failing to honour important commitments & then having the gall to offer completely lame excuses as justification for your lack of character, is simply not playing the game in my humble opinion

Or as you would probably understand it, blah, blah, blah............

Thanks for your valued feedback & illuminating analysis

The Keyboard Warrior
xx
 

Firm-but-fair

New Member
What happened to 51 to 54?

In particular, what happened to my post?

This being the post that repsonded to the personal attacks made against me in 48 & 49

Of course, these were made by people who seem to be providing some kind of financial support to this 'forum' & maybe this affords them the right to pick on who they want to?

In what way is the following any worse than post 48 & why has it been removed, whilst the original attack sits there for all to see?



Originally Posted by KMJ Recordings

Best thing to do with trolls is not feed them........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anno Draconis

blah blah.... great, yet another gobby troll. Who are you, and from which fish shop did you acquire that mahoosive chip on your shoulder?

Come back if/when you've got a point to make, rather than just ripping into people anonymously.




Ouch!

Feels like I'm being ganged up on here by two forum heavyweights - over 5,500 posts between you.........

Wow!

Furthermore, you don't feel the need to post anonymously or have any embarrassment regarding your banding profiles - good on you!

An interesting observation for you is that it appears the people who've actually been there & done it repeatedly at the very highest level, never seem to feel the need to fill in the profile & let everyone know who they are

For example, on this thread, take the loopy tuba, nigeb & toby h - any evidence of their heavyweight banding status?

Certainly not.............

Seems like when you've been there & done it, you don't feel the need to convince anyone by way of your profile

As for you two forum heavyweights, your profiles let us know exactly what you've achieved at the highest level..........

Now, if I get chance, I'll check thro those 5,500+ posts to get a better sense of your venerated insights and to see how to avoid any future issues with blah, blah, blah.........

As for making a point, I would have thought this was blatantly obvious, irrespective of your intellect/talent, or any lack thereof - failing to honour important commitments & then having the gall to offer completely lame excuses as justification for your lack of character, is simply not playing the game in my humble opinion

Or as you would probably understand it, blah, blah, blah............

Thanks for your valued feedback & illuminating analysis

The Keyboard Warrior
xx

Furthermore, as you quite rightly stated, if anyone thinks this is just causing trouble for the sake of it, or that this is someone who's opinion you don't value, just select the ignore posts option - simple as that!

Irrespective of people's various personal associations/allegiances, the very valid question is simple

Is it acceptable to renege after having made an important commitment?

Particularly, so close to an event in which many people have invested massive amounts of time, money & hard work

Particularly, when you are simply following a trend of many ill timed & seemingly very thoughtless withdrawals?

Shouldn't the proper course of action be to stand by your original commitment & then decline any future invites if you have some genuine issue?

Are we really expected to accept that there isn't something very strange going on here?

Are these all supposed to be legitimate, coincidental withdrawals?

Pull the other one!

Of course, anyone may make any number of excuses which can appear to be valid, but the bottom line is this - think long & hard before you make any serious commitment & then stick to it!

Or is this just a load of old 'gobby troll' nonsense?

You tell me.........
 

jockinafrock

Active Member
:confused: Are you serious? In nearly 28 years of banding I've never, ever, known a band withdraw from a contest because of the test piece. Have you?


Of course there are bands out there who withdraw from contests because they, or the conductor, find the music too hard! They're just not going to admit it! The shame of it... :oops:

It's too easy to blame busy schedules/costs, etc. Bands know what the outcome of winning the ENs are, and must surely know what the band calendar is, so they should think long and hard before entering.

I do strongly agree though that bands should not enter the likes of the English Nationals if they know that something prohibitive (ie the cost) means they would not be able to go to the European. And why enter if they have no intention of going to the European if they did win anyway? :mad:
 

welshmike

Member
Why is there this feeling from certain quarters that bands should be penalised for not attending this contest?

The band I play for were asked to attend after Brighouse withdrew because we were the next highest ranked band in the World of Brass rankings. Are the people who are sprouting this drivel also suggesting that bands of the quality of Carlton Main, Brighouse, Desford etc should be penalised aswell?

I think most bands who aren't sponsered enough to attend 4 contests in the space of a month (Whit Friday, International Masters, English Masters and the Spring Festival) will be pleased that they don't have the additional expense of having to attend another contest. We certainaly don't have enough money in the pot to throw it away on this contest. We were proud to have the opportunity to play against the 'big boys' after only being in exsitence less than 10 years. Sadly at this point we cannot afford the risk of throwing away more money.

Good luck to those bands who can afford to attend this contest, sadly this time we can't, but given time, money and lots of 'luck' like some bands seem to have we WILL be competing against ALL of the proper 'big boys'
 
Why is there this feeling from certain quarters that bands should be penalised for not attending this contest?

The band I play for were asked to attend after Brighouse withdrew because we were the next highest ranked band in the World of Brass rankings. Are the people who are sprouting this drivel also suggesting that bands of the quality of Carlton Main, Brighouse, Desford etc should be penalised aswell?


Yes I do think that all bands that withdraw should be penalised by not being invited back - to be invited to a contest such as EN's is an honour. My feelings are not a personal attack on any band I just feel that if you are invited and you accept then you should honour your invite and not drop out therefore dropping the BFBB in the proverbial and basically sticking 2 fingers up at them!! And that goes for the so called "big boys" as well. You will all need the BFBB before they need you
 

billy_p

Member
George and carina, find me in the bar and i will explain business strategy. Its not difficult. Basically, no chance of winning small pot = near certain financial loss, small chance of winning big pot = not so certain financial loss. So we go to durham as a calculated risk, we go to preston if we can afford to throw away money. And please dont throw this back at me should we lose anyway, the logic remains regardless of the result!
 
George and carina, find me in the bar and i will explain business strategy. Its not difficult. Basically, no chance of winning small pot = near certain financial loss, small chance of winning big pot = not so certain financial loss. So we go to durham as a calculated risk, we go to preston if we can afford to throw away money. And please dont throw this back at me should we lose anyway, the logic remains regardless of the result!
I appreciate that Billy, so why not say that in the first place, and tell the organisers that before accepting the invite. My previous reply was not being nasty but trying to understand how it would cost less to attend a contest in Durham than it would in Preston, when travelling from Warrington.
I will not be able to see you in the bar as I will be away but let me explain about distance and travelling costs "its not difficult!!!!!!" Basically Less miles = Less money ie 214 Miles return is less than 40 miles return. (Tee Hee).
 
Firm but Fair......very vitriolic, with, as someone else has already stated. a massive chip on your shoulder. I think that maybe you are one of the organisers of the contest to launch such personal verbal attacks as you have done. These have been directed at indviduals and not the band/organisations that have withdrawn and is unnecessary. Best part of it, you hide behind your anonymity
 

billy_p

Member
George, if our aim was to minimise payments made to bus companies you would be 100% right. Its not, so you are 100% wrong. I cant explain clearer than the earlier post, please try to read it again, tee hee
 
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