Coronavirus, what might it mean to Banding

marc71178

Member
To my mind the obvious way forward, if not a happy one for all, is for all Bands to mark time for a year with their sections remaining as is (i.e. as a ‘blanket’ national policy of no promotions and no relegations).
Absolutely ridiculous. There is no reason whatsoever for bands where the contests have taken place to now have these results removed, particularly in the earlier contests.
 

GER

Active Member
Surely the common sense thing to do would be cancel the national finals, and allow the regionals that have postponed to play later in the year. I know there are promotions for winning the national finals, but I would imagine that most of the bands competing have already been promoted via the regionals anyway. The maximum number of bands that can be promoted in the nationals is four, which is way less than the number of promotions (and relegations) that are produced by the regionals. It would also lessen the financial burden on the bands that have qualified for the nationals, you only have to look on social media to see the number of concerts being cancelled, as bands are going to suffer reduced income from cancelled concerts, how are they going to fund a weekend at the national finals anyway?.
 

2nd tenor

Well-Known Member
Absolutely ridiculous. There is no reason whatsoever for bands where the contests have taken place to now have these results removed, particularly in the earlier contests.
I can quite understand that perspective but there are also losers from it too. My thoughts are that every band should be treated equally regardless of region. As for removing the results that’s not my proposal, my proposal is not to act on them. Certainly no Band should be penalised for withdrawing due to Coronavirus concerns, now that would be absolutely ridiculous and a badge of shame on any regional committee that did it.

Whatever, it’s not our decision and whatever decision is made will not please everybody. I stand by the logic that if a Band was good enough to be in-line for promotion this year then it should be capable of producing the same result next time around, if not then surely the result didn’t reflect the true strengths of the Band and promotion of it wouldn’t really be deserving (which IMHO it should be).
 
Last edited:

Queeg2000

Active Member
Bearing in mind promotions and relegations are based over two years anyway, if a band won last year but withdrew this year, they may not be promoted but won’t be relegated either.

It can be argued it’s the same for everyone at least within a region and if one band withdraws while the others all attend then it’s questionable that the one that withdrew had alterior motive.

At the end of the day, when lives are at risk, how important is promotion, relegation or qualification for the nationals which could well be cancelled anyway?

I’d suggest the results pale into insignificance against what’s happening globally.
 

2nd tenor

Well-Known Member
Bearing in mind promotions and relegations are based over two years anyway, if a band won last year but withdrew this year, they may not be promoted but won’t be relegated either.

It can be argued it’s the same for everyone at least within a region and if one band withdraws while the others all attend then it’s questionable that the one that withdrew had alterior motive.

At the end of the day, when lives are at risk, how important is promotion, relegation or qualification for the nationals which could well be cancelled anyway?

I’d suggest the results pale into insignificance against what’s happening globally.
True, it could be argued that “it’s the same for everyone at least within a region and if one band withdraws while the others all attend then it is questionable that the one that withdrew had ulterior motive” (my correction in italics). However, I think it would be reasonable enough to accept that any Band that has clearly prepared for and intended to Contest hasn’t withdrawn to game the system - if I were in such a Band I’d be jolly annoyed with anyone who questioned my integrity, but I suppose that ‘it takes all types to make a world’. There comes a time at which one simply has to use reasonable judgement, set lesser issues aside and move on. Next year’s Contests should provide a clean slate and opportunity for everyone to fairly compete.

“At the end of the day, when lives are at risk, how important is promotion, relegation or qualification for the nationals which could well be cancelled anyway?” IMHO there is absolutely no comparison, I can understand someone being passionate about their Band (I really love mine, a great bunch of folk and many good musicians) but personally I find the lives of friends and loved ones far more important than any Trophy or accolade.

I’d agree that “the results pale into insignificance against what’s happening globally”.
 
Last edited:

Jack E

Well-Known Member
Great, but what about the Medics that will be forced to make that awful decision whether you get a ventilator or not.
I said I refuse to shut myself away - I did NOT say I would deliberately go to crowded places and spend a lot of time there, did I? Frankly, the kind of over-reaction in your post is exactly the thing I'm against, and what I do NOT think helps anyone. As for medics having to make a choice as to 'who gets treatment and who doesn't' - I suggest you talk to medical staff. They have to make decisions like that all the time - and they know perfectly well that some people will die whilst waiting for a donated organ, or a time slot in the operating theatre.
Will you infect other people?
Will YOU? Are YOU shutting yourself away for the next few months? If you go out, how do you know whether you're carrying that virus or not, whether or not YOU are infecting other people?
Do you care?
I refuse to even BOTHER answering that utterly stupid question.
This is NOT just another Flu . . .
Yes, it is. The only difference between Covid-19 and seasonal flu is that, as yet, there is no vaccine for Covid-19. Furthemore, ALL the current indications point the same way; that those dying from Covid-19 are exactly the same group who die by the hundreds every winter from seasonal flu - despite the fact that the great majority of them have a flu jab every winter. Do you make the same fuss about seasonal flu, and do you care about all the victims who die from it? I very much doubt it. If you check the figures released so far, it's very clear that the numbers of confirmed cases who need hospital treatment are very much in the minority, and those who become critically ill are an even smaller minority - exactly as is the case with seasonal flu! Yet to see the way people are behaving at present, anyone would think that Covid-19 was Cholera!
. . . in a few weeks, you won't have any choice about these decisions they will be made for you.
And what sort of decisions will they be? That all over-70s must stay indoors? So, tell me; as there are over 14 million over-70s in the UK, and only 126,000 police in England and Wales, and only about the same number of armed forces personnel in Britain at present, exactly how do the government enforcers propose to police us all? How are they to keep all of us supplied with food and essential household supplies for the next few months? Have you tried ordering groceries on-line at present? If you do, you'll find that the next available delivery slot is about the end of April - and people trying to log on to the Ocado website say even to do that much involves a very lengthy wait.
The fact is that, regardless of official statements, the government has neither the manpower nor the infrastructure to force millions of people to self-isolate for months on end, or to keep that many people supplied with food and essential supplies.
 
The important thing surely is to keep the Band in existence. In many cases the virus will save contesting bands money but cost non contesting bands reliant on concert income a considerable chunk of their annual income. We didn't practice this evening, none of the members wanted to come! Effectively we are out of action at least until after Easter. If it extends to August it could cost us 50% of our annual income, we can survive till next year but some Bands will be crippled.,
Its worth mentioning that in England your Parish Council can help Bands, possibly useful if you get into financial difficulty.
Local Government Act 1972 Section 145 Provision of entertainments.
(1) A local authority may do, or arrange for the doing of, or contribute towards the expenses of the doing of, anything (whether inside or outside their area) necessary or expedient for any of the following purposes, that is to say—
(a) the provision of an entertainment of any nature or of facilities for dancing;
(b) the provision of a theatre, concert hall, dance hall or other premises suitable for the giving of entertainments or the holding of dances;
(c) the maintenance of a band or orchestra;
It does not have to but can help out if you ask nicely enough.
Another issue is keeping in practice. Plenty of solo cornet and soloist music is available on line for free. Many of you have digitised libraries and can withdraw your parts, but playing on your own gets tedious when there is nothing to practice for.
My arrangements on Musescore are for easy 4th section type bands and are set up so anyone can download and print the parts, and they you can download the score and play it on your computer, through the headphones, or speakers, play it without your part. Play with your part loud and others quieter. Change the tempo if you need to play it slower, play the whole thing with your part on screen with the cursor telling you where you are. All for free as they run on the freeware Musescore and are posted to YouuTube. No one could see the point when I posted them so with such disappointing amounts of hits I gave up posting. I post as DavidCBroad
 

2nd tenor

Well-Known Member
Without wishing to be antagonist to anyone else I recon Brasstafarian has the situation about right. I’m going to be very upset if we have a lockdown in this country and aren’t keen about the way the over 70’s are being ‘protected’ but it’s better than the alternatives. Boris has basically said that ‘we have the powers already but are choosing not to use them (yet) because we’re a modern democracy and everyone knows what to do and will do it’

A couple of months back a friend’s Mother came over from China to be with her Daughter (both are EU ‘citizens’). The Mother self isolated and the Daughter was told by both house mates and work mates that if she met her Mother than she was to neither come home or go to work. Folk are uptight, if anyone thinks that their workmates or neighbours won’t mind them being a potential health risk to them then they’re in for a very unpleasant surprise. Prepare to be bored and prepare to look after yourself and your family in a difficult time ahead - but please don’t hoard more than you could reasonably need to call upon because someone else needs those excess goods to survive too.
 

John Brooks

Well-Known Member
I've hesitated to join this conversation but feel I have something to add. To put my comments into perspective, I live about 60 miles west of Toronto. I'm neither a doctor or a medical professional, I am simply a confused member of the public. I'm concerned with the type of rhetoric being expressed on this thread, some of which has become heated. There is so much information it's impossible for us to keep up and even news professionals are having difficulty. There is inconsistent information as well......for example I heard on the news this morning an "informed" explanation of self-quarantine by a medical professional who contradicted himself at least twice. I also heard a doctor say that we should stay in our homes and not go for walks because we can't control who we might meet while out. That is true but I can control how close I come to anyone else and I can carry on a conversation from 10 feet away. Another doctor recommended going out for walks!! Hence my confusion! At this point I respect COVID19 but am not afraid of it; that may change (because of my age (74) or other circumstances). Is it the same as flu or completely different? I haven't got a clue and I've not heard any medical professional make that distinction, other that in the way the world is responding to COVID19 which leads me to believe it is different. Personally, I will stay on that side of the question as I make my decisions. I hope these comments add to this conversation in a positive way. Be well!!
 

2nd tenor

Well-Known Member
I have to agree John, the situation is confusing and advice does conflict. In addition different countries have different degrees of infection and are managing the ‘crisis’ in different ways. Canada, is vast and has a relatively small population whereas the U.K. is tiny in comparison and has roughly double the population. There will be similarities in how the situation is managed in both countries but also differences to reflect, amongst other things, different cultures and population distributions.

Personally I’m of the get out and exercise mentality, but as I’m fortunate enough to live near to large open spaces and expect to keep others at a distance perhaps that might be (safely) possible for me. Other activities are not so sensible, I read elsewhere of a group of fourteen friends (seniors) getting together in Seattle. As events unfolded it appeared that nine of the fourteen subsequently tested positive for the virus and the remaining five are concerned about what will follow for them ... everyone thought themselves well at the meeting but this virus does give such a false sense of security and illusion.

How dangerous is Coronavirus? Well I’m not qualified to say and it all depends on what heath care you can get if badly effected. One (well informed) estimate of mortality rate is 1% of those infected which could translate to 600 thousand additional U.K. deaths, that is somewhat concerning to me and it still would if it proved to be an overestimate by a factor of 10. See: What is coronavirus, is there a cure and what is the mortality rate? . At the time of writing Italy has reported circa 3000 corona virus deaths of which near 500 were in the last 24 hours, see: Italy virus deaths rise by record 475 in a day .

Keep calm, I absolutely agree with that.
 
Last edited:

John Brooks

Well-Known Member
I hope it's appropriate to post this information here. I just read this information and thought it very pertinent to this conversation:

Good read from an immunologist at Johns Hopkins University

Not really feeling sick and do not want to be..but if you are feeling confused as to why Coronavirus is a bigger deal than Seasonal flu? Here it is in a nutshell. I hope this helps. Feel free to share this to others who don’t understand...

It has to do with RNA sequencing.... I.e. genetics.

Seasonal flu is an “all human virus”. The DNA/RNA chains that make up the virus are recognized by the human immune system. This means that your body has some immunity to it before it comes around each year... you get immunity two ways...through exposure to a virus, or by getting a flu shot.

Novel viruses, come from animals.... the WHO tracks novel viruses in animals, (sometimes for years watching for mutations). Usually these viruses only transfer from animal to animal (pigs in the case of H1N1) (birds in the case of the Spanish flu). But once, one of these animal viruses mutates, and starts to transfer from animals to humans... then it’s a problem, Why? Because we have no natural or acquired immunity.. the RNA sequencing of the genes inside the virus isn’t human, and the human immune system doesn’t recognize it so, we can’t fight it off.

Now.... sometimes, the mutation only allows transfer from animal to human, for years it’s only transmission is from an infected animal to a human before it finally mutates so that it can now transfer human to human... once that happens..we have a new contagion phase. And depending on the fashion of this new mutation, thats what decides how contagious, or how deadly it’s gonna be..

H1N1 was deadly....but it did not mutate in a way that was as deadly as the Spanish flu. It’s RNA was slower to mutate and it attacked its host differently, too.

Fast forward.

Now, here comes this Coronavirus... it existed in animals only, for nobody knows how long...but one day, at an animal market, in Wuhan China, in December 2019, it mutated and made the jump from animal to people. At first, only animals could give it to a person... But here is the scary part.... in just TWO WEEKS it mutated again and gained the ability to jump from human to human. Scientists call this quick ability, “slippery”

This Coronavirus, not being in any form a “human” virus (whereas we would all have some natural or acquired immunity). Took off like a rocket. And this was because, Humans have no known immunity...doctors have no known medicines for it.

And it just so happens that this particular mutated animal virus, changed itself in such a way the way that it causes great damage to human lungs..

That’s why Coronavirus is different from seasonal flu, or H1N1 or any other type of influenza.... this one is slippery AF. And it’s a lung eater...And, it’s already mutated AGAIN, so that we now have two strains to deal with, strain s, and strain L....which makes it twice as hard to develop a vaccine.

We really have no tools in our shed, with this. History has shown that fast and immediate closings of public places has helped in the past pandemics. Philadelphia and Baltimore were reluctant to close events in 1918 and they were the hardest hit in the US during the Spanish Flu.

Factoid: Henry VIII stayed in his room and allowed no one near him, till the Black Plague passed...(honestly...I understand him so much better now). Just like us, he had no tools in his shed, except social isolation...

And let me end by saying....right now it’s hitting older folks harder... but this genome is so slippery...if it mutates again (and it will). Who is to say, what it will do next.

Be smart folks... acting like you’re unafraid is so not needed right now.
 

Jack E

Well-Known Member
I came across this quote in a 'Sunday Telegraph' article today, which sheds an interesting light on the apparent fatality rates of Covid-19. If the doctor the 'Telegraph' quoted is correct in her view (and I see no reason to doubt it), it raises two distinct possibilities; firstly, that the numbers of people infected are several orders of magnitude greater than the numbers actually confirmed, and, secondly, that the numbers becoming seriously ill or dying are a far lower proportion of those infected than the official figures would have us believe.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Professor Rosalind Smyth, director and professor of child health at UCL Great Ormond St Institute of Child Health in London, said:
"We have very little idea of the number of cases due to the lack of availability of testing kits.
I am at home, starting to recover, from an illness with classic clinical features of Covid-19. I have been self-isolating since I first developed the cough, but I haven't been tested, nor have I contacted my doctor. I am aware of many people in London in a similar position. Given the current availability of testing kits, I fully understand why otherwise healthy people, who do not need to go to hospital, like me, should not be tested.
However, this means that we have really very little idea of the number of 'cases', and I am concerned that this figure is so misleading that it should not be used. On conservative estimates, the true figure is likely to be five to ten times higher. It may heighten concern as people think the case fatality rate is much higher than it is, or provide false reassurance that the number of 'cases' in a given area is much lower than it is."
(my emphasis, JE)
 

2nd tenor

Well-Known Member
In general I find that “Believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see” is a reasonable ‘rule of thumb’, and that that rule is generous towards what is in the Printed Press. I find that the BBC reports are more useful than the Printed Press but don’t expect perfection - but at least the BBC aims for accurate and balanced reporting as opposed to sales and satisfying reader bias. I understand the reluctance of people to curtail their activities and the desire to have their choice (business as usual) supported in some way, stopping what we normally do is jolly inconvenient and often costly too. Coronavirus is invisible, so as we can’t see it it isn’t real and doesn’t exist? H’mm, the same could be said about electricity and that can kill too.

There are so many variables in the death rate that it’s hard to accurately predict what it will be in any country and in any part of a country. However all over the world a lot of people have died from Coronavirus and done so despite the best efforts of attending Doctors. I don’t like to be someone that just follows the herd but neither do I like playing Russian Roulette, no matter how many chambers there are in the gun it’s still a stupid game so don’t take unnecessary chances with your health.

With the above in mind I’d have thought it best to not fuss about the smaller details and to just accept that the situation is too serious and too fluid to usefully question, and that beyond that many more people will die despite the best efforts of those trying to help them to remain alive the eventual outcome is uncertain. What am I going to do? As best I can I’m going to follow the guidelines and work at keeping healthy, it’s not that difficult to do and a relatively small sacrifice of my liberty now is a good ‘investment’ for my likely future wellbeing (it puts the odds of survival more in my favour). I don’t know what others will do and mostly it’s their business up to the point at which their actions ‘appear’ to adversely affects the health of the general population. At that point one either complies or faces the social consequences ... which in the current turmoil could easily get out of hand.
 
Last edited:

2nd tenor

Well-Known Member
BBC aims for accurate and balanced reporting - really!!! Brexit was a good example of balanced reporting, not.
Like I said ‘don’t expect perfection’, they tried and whilst I think that they were a bit biased against my point of view people with the opposite view to me would likely think the reverse. I wouldn’t like to say that the BBC is sometimes a part of the Government’s media machine but I don’t doubt that at times they are leaned on a bit by whoever is in power.

Could we return from this diversion now please.
 
Now we are in "Lock Down" in the UK confined to our homes except for "Essential Work" scavenging for food, one period of exercise per day etc Its going to be difficult for some players especially in non contesting bands to keep motivated and keep their "lips in"
I saw Cory on TV but was disappointed that it was a compilation for You Tube, I had hoped it was a rehearsal by Skype. I understand the Caravan Club Band was to try practising by Skype but didn't hear whether it worked. My daily exercise today was a walk in the beautiful countryside of Acocks Green, but tomorrow I shall walk to the Bandroom and do a few breathing exercises using an apparatus created by Messrs Besson and walk home. Incidentally there must be quite a few Banding households where there are enough players to form a Trio or Quartet. We used to play a Trio Cornet, Horn, Euphonium, but I had to arrange all the music but sadly it was all hand written, plenty of Quartet music around if anyone doesn't mind playing Hymns but maybe some of the Music Publishers could rustle up some trios etc for varied instrumentation.
 
Top