Brass band members targeted with 'abusive' tweets

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boourns

Member
You missed this bit:-

"Of course, many of his co-conspirators and cronies seem to think that this behaviour is acceptable?"
I am neither, if that's what you're implying, and nowhere have I seen anyone say it was acceptable. It's just that many people, including apparently some of those who actually have a right to be offended, think that the reaction has been blown massively out of proportion. There has already been one knee jerk sacking, and people are baying for more blood. It beggars belief.
 

hobgoblin

Member
Correct in every way Alyn. Not only has this person disgraced himself and the brass band movement but has placed his own band in a very difficult position. Yes, he does think he's a wit - unfortunately he's not, but has been encouraged by the people who think it's amusing to use a barrage of abusive language on social network sites for all to see. Of course, many of his co-conspirators and cronies seem to think that this behaviour is acceptable? I wonder what the management of Butlins now feel about running a band contest which attracts such bad publicity - it could jeopordise the future? I feel, for the honour of his own band, of whom I am a patron, he should resign with immediate effect before these disgraceful acts tarnish the name of the band he plays for. Dago
It sounds like some of the tweets did indeed go beyond the acceptable, but the only person to disgrace the band movement is the one who has tried to court maximum publicity to this whole mess, otherwise this particular storm in the tiny tea-cup of banding would have been forgotten by now. As for the future of Butlins contest, I don't think there is any danger of them pulling the plug on the cash cow that sees a few hundred mugs paying through the nose for a weekend on the p**s in a Baltic 1950's slum. Maybe you should resign as a patron if your sensibilities are so enraged? - by next week both your patronage and this incident would be history.
 

The Wherryman

Active Member
I can understand the kids band trying to mitigate the bad PR by getting rid..
Have they 'got rid'? I must have missed something then. I have only seen mention of one of the others involved losing his seat.

and the Telegraph, and Sky. Iwan Fox had tried to create a media storm, the fact that he pretty much failed doesn't negate that fact. I also hear he has been ringing up bands of the accused. This is a witchhunt.
You forgot to mention tMP. Strangely enough, I never read the BBC Lincolnshire web site or The Telegraph, very rarely look at 4br and don't watch Sky. I (and probably many others) became aware of this matter solely via tMP. Is tMP part of the witch hunt (rhetorical question)? Should this thread have been locked and deleted (ditto)?

Unfortunately, with electronic media, unless you actually know something about the correspondent, such as age, gender, social background etc., any communication has to be taken at face value. There is no body language by which to gauge it and you have to judge it by your own standards.

While I can understand that likening a player’s sound to that of a vacuum cleaner might be considered amusing, not so the suggestion that a player is a child abuser. Mud sticks and, if that comment had been made about someone in my band I would expect an instant retraction, together with an unequivocal personal and public apology.

What the band for which he plays does about it is up to them, but they will be aware that there are many eyes upon them – if that makes any difference.
 

hobgoblin

Member
Have they 'got rid'? I must have missed something then. I have only seen mention of one of the others involved losing his seat. You forgot to mention tMP. Strangely enough, I never read the BBC Lincolnshire web site or The Telegraph, very rarely look at 4br and don't watch Sky. I (and probably many others) became aware of this matter solely via tMP. Is tMP part of the witch hunt (rhetorical question)? Should this thread have been locked and deleted (ditto)? Unfortunately, with electronic media, unless you actually know something about the correspondent, such as age, gender, social background etc., any communication has to be taken at face value. There is no body language by which to gauge it and you have to judge it by your own standards. While I can understand that likening a player’s sound to that of a vacuum cleaner might be considered amusing, not so the suggestion that a player is a child abuser. Mud sticks and, if that comment had been made about someone in my band I would expect an instant retraction, together with an unequivocal personal and public apology. What the band for which he plays does about it is up to them, but they will be aware that there are many eyes upon them – if that makes any difference.
I can't see what any of this has to do with the respective bands of those involved - unless they were representing their bands at the contest. Without knowing those involved, it would appear from other posts on this thread that they are "top level" bandsmen, and therefore would only be attending a relatively minor contest such as Butlins as social spectators. By all means throw the disinterested long arm of the (six fingered) Lincolnshire law at them, and have a word with their parents if you must, but sack them from their bands - get a life! I'm pretty sure those involved have got the message loud and clear that what went on is not acceptable, probably feeling like complete idiots, and wishing they had not done it. Surely that is enough? Perhaps those baying for more sanctions against what seems to be a bunch of little more than kids need to question their own motives?
 

Steve

Active Member
Regardless of the involvement of 4br etc and the manner in which this has been manipulated in certain circles lets get a couple of things cleared up.

No one involved in the Twitter account has said they are happy / proud of the comments (relating to race / sexuality etc) made.
The person that was asked to leave the contest and stop reporting did exactly that WELL before the worst tweets appeared.
This is NOT the same person that posted the worst twitter comments.
The person that ceased has since been sacked by their band. (B&R)
The person that tweeted the very serious comments has been retained by their band. (Black Dyke)

There is soooo much more to add, but that will come out in the wash I guess.

ps. I'm not involved in any way in the Twitter account
 
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The Wherryman

Active Member
I can't see what any of this has to do with the respective bands of those involved - unless they were representing their bands at the contest.
I don't think I have suggested that it has anything to do with the respective bands, only that what those bands do is up to them. However, in general terms, if a player behaves 'badly' within a banding scenario, and the band for which he/she plays appears to condone that behaviour by its inaction, it might be a cause for discussion.

Let's face it, the reprehensible and, sometimes illegal, behaviour of certain 'pop' stars only seems to increase their attractiveness to certain sections of society. Perhaps there are brass bands who would relish having that sort of reputation, if it brought the same financial rewards. There are so many calls for a greater involvement by the youth of today. It would be interesting to see if such a band could attract the same number of youthful players and followers as the' bad boys (and girls)' of pop.
 

kstring24

New Member
Some of what has been written about above beggars belief. It's almost as though I've stumbled upon the Daily Mail readers comments. Criticising his father for his parenting skills? Calling for Bands to sack players. Really? The amount of people laying into a 16-year-old kid on here is astonishing. Perhaps unlike me, you all behaved like angels when you were 16, didn't drink, didn't smoke and certainly didn't swear? If so, feel free to chuck the first stone.

Sorry but this is really showing up the worst from some people in our movement and I'm not talking about the kids here.
Oh come on, this 16 year old 'kid' should be old enough to take responsibility for his actions. No one is saying they were angels when they were 16, but I highly doubt anyone on here has openly made derogatory and damaging comments where other people can see? They probably didn't because there were no keyboards to hide behind or social networks that gave people a voice. However 16 year olds now probably still have the brains to work out where the line is, and even if they don't at least they don't attach themselves to an organisation that represents a large proportion of decent, self-respecting people who don't have the malice to call someone a pedophile.
 

fartycat

Member
but I highly doubt anyone on here has openly made derogatory and damaging comments where other people can see?
What, you mean like 4BR regularly do on their own live reports? I've seen racist, sexist and homophobic output from them in the past.
 

Mrs Fruity

Member
I think the internet has a lot to answer for. Since the advent of texts, internet forums and brass band "news" websites, the face of the organisaton has totally changed, and not always for the better. As someone said earlier, in the past if you had anything to say to another player, you'd say it face to face in the bar or at band and take the consequences. Now that photos taken on phones in the middle of band practices can be posted around the world in seconds, there's no mystique about the movement. Integrity is failing fast...

Grumpy Old Bird heads off into the sunset.
 

hobgoblin

Member
I don't think I have suggested that it has anything to do with the respective bands, only that what those bands do is up to them. However, in general terms, if a player behaves 'badly' within a banding scenario, and the band for which he/she plays appears to condone that behaviour by its inaction, it might be a cause for discussion.
A cause for discussion, or do you mean stirring? With respect your argument is nonsense, and if you pursue its strange logic to its conclusion and have these individuals sacked by their employers, thrown out of their schools / colleges, diss-owned by their parents and chucked by their girlfriends as well as thrown out of their bands would you be happy? I suspect that if the lads concerned played for 4th section bands the outcry would be rather more muted, just because they play for top bands does not mean they are better people than the rest of us - just better players. They still have every right to make a mistake and move on having learned from it. I think they will have learned from this one by last Monday morning, they won't do it again, and all this fuss should deter others in future. With that in mind it seems a bit bitter and small minded for others to press for more action.
 

Steve

Active Member
Ok!! Someone sent these to me but I know there have been many, many more. If someone else can be bothered to trawl their site then please do....

21 Nov 2010
Effective opening minus the Great Leader is a liitle dacha of a Russky into Hungary 1956 we go.
The hatted seaside postcard from Queen is as camp as Dale Winton in a bowler though. Nostalgia ain't what it used to be - even in black and white.


23 Jan 2011
Sounds like a young offenders institution but is in fact a decent old traditional march
Thankfully it all gets better with a neat take on the old 'When the Saints' theme that has more light loafered whistling apostles than a gay pride march through Brighton.

19 Nov 2011
High class playing with as many shiney baubles as can be found on a gypsies caravan in Essex.
A celebration of all things Argie - from Maradona and pampas cowboys to the tango and the SS Belgrano.
Two young player are brave but lacking the experience required to project the real intertwined sexuality needed.
The trip to redneck Alabama though is not great. Xylo/Marimba songs from the Ole' plantation.
 

ploughboy

Active Member
fair enough points Steve - but at no point do 4BR actually directly name someone as a Pedo? I admit their word play gets close to the wire, but there is no direct name calling or deification.
 

The Wherryman

Active Member
A cause for discussion, or do you mean stirring?
No, I mean discussion. This is a discussion forum, after all. Threads that are started with the intention of stirring the brown stuff (usually by an anonymous member) as soon identified as such.

With respect your argument is nonsense, and if you pursue its strange logic to its conclusion and have these individuals sacked by their employers, thrown out of their schools / colleges, diss-owned by their parents and chucked by their girlfriends as well as thrown out of their bands would you be happy?
With respect, I haven’t made any argument that can be extrapolated to that extraordinary extent.

…just because they play for top bands…
Isn’t that the point though? The higher the profile, the more intense the scrutiny.

They still have every right to make a mistake and move on having learned from it.
So far, I only seen it suggested that one of those involved has showed any signs of contrition or of learning from it. It almost seems as if the prime mover couldn’t care less. That might be entirely wrong, but…?

I think they will have learned from this one by last Monday morning, they won't do it again, and all this fuss should deter others in future.
This will soon become old news, but if it has given a 'heads up' to others and there is no repetition, there is a silver lining to the cloud.
On that, we can agree.
 

ploughboy

Active Member
Well, I was busy contesting so I did pay too much attention to the tweets on the Saturday so I can't comment on the timeline, However having had the bottle to come out and hold his hands up to certain comments (not the worst stuff) I'm happy to believe Andy.

On another note on this thread, People are asking who complained out of those who were tweeted about - I know Glyn Williams was keen to have a chat with whoever was commenting on Marsden's test piece work on Saturday!
 

MoominDave

Well-Known Member
ploughboy said:
fair enough points Steve - but at no point do 4BR actually directly name someone as a Pedo? I admit their word play gets close to the wire, but there is no direct name calling or deification.


Did these tweets do that? The two quotes singled out by 4BR were:
"looks like a serial rapist" and 'that an award was being made for "services to s****ing children"'.
That is no closer to a direct assertion than many of the asides that 4BR turn out week in week out. I find 4BR's holier-than-thou stance on this hypocritical. After all (permitting bodily resurrection), what would we say if Bernard Manning called Frankie Boyle tasteless? Okay, so the tweets weren't as funny as Frankie Boyle can sometimes be - but then 4BR's attempts at humour so often only fail to be less funny than Bernard Manning was because there's no room to be less funny than he was... Their regular clumsy attempts at stereotype-based humour just make everyone cringe. They should get off their high horse and recognise their own faults before hounding a stupid kid.
 

Pondash

New Member
You retired from banding because of offensive tweeting?
No.
I have dont really know what twitter is all about have have not read anywhere the 'tweets' to which the article refers.

It seems that when you see people at contests who no longer play alot of them are very anti internet.

I check www.4barsrest.com now, but having them comment on my every split when I was playing I would have found appalling! When I split a few (which i did often enough!) it was laughed at by my band, not the whole banding community.

I know you can choose not to read the website, yet lots of players must check it just to see if they are having fun poked at them whilst trying to enjoy their hobby.

Pondash
 

The Wherryman

Active Member
Ok!! Someone sent these to me but I know there have been many, many more. If someone else can be bothered to trawl their site then please do...
I agree that the quoted extracts indicate a very low level of journalist skill, but not quite to the depth that appears to have been plumbed by the tweets. Perhaps 4br may take a closer look at itself as a result of this.
 

hobgoblin

Member
I agree that the quoted extracts indicate a very low level of journalist skill, but not quite to the depth that appears to have been plumbed by the tweets. Perhaps 4br may take a closer look at itself as a result of this.
Sound advice - in view of their youth it could well be applied to the tweeting lads as well. Perhaps a bit of reflection and growing up would better serve all concerned than being "sacked" from a brass band - it appears they play tenor horn / baritone which is surely a punishment in itself?
 
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