Borrowing players

[Okiedokie of Oz]

In Australia, we call this process, of using another band's players in an emergency, permitting. there are many rules we have to follow, such as

ORGANISATION WITH ONE COMPETING BAND
AT SAME STATE CONTEST MAY HAVE:
1 x OVERSEAS PERMIT
1 x OVERSEAS PERMIT for No.1 plus 3 x JUNIORS from No. 2 to No. 1
or
2 x INTERSTATE PERMITS

2 x INTERSTATE PERMITS for No.1 plus 3 x JUNIORS from No. 2 to No.1
or
I x INTERSTATE & I x QLD. BASED PERMIT

1 x INTERSTATE plus 1 x QLD PLAYER plus 3 x JUNIORS from No. 2 to No.1
or
or
3 x QLD. BASED PERMITS

3 x QLD PERMITS plus 3 x JUNIORS from No. 2 to No. 1

and so forth.

There was, for those of you who don't follow Australian Brass Banding, a massive debacle in Victoria (southern state, where Melbourne is) over the use of a permit by a winning B grade (section 2??) band, which ahs taken lawyers and 6 months to resolve.

The question is now being asked in the QBA forum by a member of the MAB if we need to adjust our permit rules to make sure we can't get into strife like this.

Can someone please explain to me how you guys work this sort of thing out, what yout rules are, and perhaps make suggestions from your years of experience??

 

[Pythagoras]

For the areas and nationals you can't borrow. For other contests the rules vary, but are often something like this:

You can borrow 4 players from your own section or lower, except that in the 4th section 2 of these can be from third section.

 

[Australian Euphonium]

Yah touchy subject in Australia isn't it!!...I'd rather not go there. I think its best just to try and get your own band to a contest with as little help as possible. Of course that can't always happen and it's a shame when disputes arise out of the permitting proccess...6 months and lawyers...god whats the point of being in a brass band if your're spending all your time fighting over who wins one silly contest.

 

[Aidan]

does anyone know the rules for borrowing at pontins??
does it have to be from same or lower? or same or 1 section above? or any section?

 

[Okiedokie of Oz]

My band and I would have loved to do this contest on our own. Unfortunately, we lost a lot of players last minute. A bass trombonist you might be able to get away with, but the lead percussionist?????

 

[sparkling_quavers]

does anyone know the rules for borrowing at pontins??
does it have to be from same or lower? or same or 1 section above? or any section?

same or lower section I believe...although think the 2 from 3rd applies to 4th section

 

[Aidan]

aww bugger oh well toby
any champ band want a cornet and horn player for pontins??

 

[Steve Nicoll]

The rules definitely vary from area to area as I've guested for 4th section bands as a Championship Section player in the past.

 

[Borfeo]

Yeah, your quite right there Stevie.

Up in Scotland the rule is that you can borrow up to four players, with max of two coming from higher section bands.

 

[Moy]

But not for Area or Nationals.

 

[Borfeo]

Indeed....

 

[Roger Thorne]

does anyone know the rules for borrowing at pontins??

Pontins Brass Band Championships - Rules

Day transfers will be allowed on completion of an 'Application for Temporary Day Transfer of Player(s)'

A band may borrow no more that 4 players for any one contest

A player on temporary day transfer for a contest may play for:

• The band which has applied for the temporary transfer,
  The band with which he/she is normally registered, if that band is competing
  Championship, First, Second and Third Sections.

Borrowed players in the above sections shall be registered players from bands registered either the same grade or grades lower than the borrowing band.
Fourth Section: Borrowed players in the 4th section shall be registered players from bands in the same section or of the four permitted borrowed players, up to two may be from the third section.

Good job they don't make these rules too complicated eh!

:?

 

[RichardCookson]

I think a lot of the 'heat' has been taken out of this subject in the UK by the decision a few years ago that professional musicians could now be used in contests, and that a lengthy period of registration was no longer required before a contest.

UK bands who are desperate to enter a competition but don't have a full complement often register a professional, music student, or some other player who doesn't normally play in a brass band for the contest. This can be done at quite short notice provided they are not already registered with another band and is certainly used a lot in the championship section to temporarily fill gaps.

Also, as was recently pointed out elswhere in this forum, conductors do not have to be registered with a particular band in the UK and are free to register and play with other bands, allowing them to register to help out other bands in an emergency.

 

[louise0502]

We borrowed a player last year at the areas cos two of our players had a bad car crash on the way down. We were only allowed one though.

Must have been an exception