Black Dyke be Worrisome?

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Aidan

Active Member
Who could really match them???? hmmmmm.... let me think, at least 8 bands of the top of my head without really thinking about it. ;)

Don't you think the top top bands have a pool of very talented players? Fantastic facilities/more rehearsals are ok but without the fantastic players it don't make a great band!!!

Regards
agreed.
The word 'professional' doesn't mean 'better'.
I don't think a military band would have the same strength in depth, or be as settled as a band as most of the current top outfits.
 

johnmartin

Active Member
The way I see it, there are people fighting wars in far away places to make our lives safer and many have perished trying to make our lives safer.
Whilst I agree with you Pete that our armed forces do deserve respect I cannot agree with the above statement. Just how is fighting an American war in Iraq and Afghanistan making our lives safer. Even WW1 was a political war, WWII was a just fight against the rise of facism and the tyranny of the Nazis. The conflicts we as a nation have been involved in since have all been fought for political expediency and not because we had to. Unfortunately the boys on the ground are just the pawns of their political masters back home and tragically many of them have paid the ultimate sacrifice. Many of them would doubtless prefer not to be where they are right now.

[cynical]There's an election coming soon so perhaps Gordo Broon will bring them home just to ensure victory at home[/cynical].
 

2nd man down

Moderator
Staff member
Whilst I agree with you Pete that our armed forces do deserve respect I cannot agree with the above statement. Just how is fighting an American war in Iraq and Afghanistan making our lives safer. Even WW1 was a political war, WWII was a just fight against the rise of facism and the tyranny of the Nazis. The conflicts we as a nation have been involved in since have all been fought for political expediency and not because we had to. Unfortunately the boys on the ground are just the pawns of their political masters back home and tragically many of them have paid the ultimate sacrifice. Many of them would doubtless prefer not to be where they are right now.

[cynical]There's an election coming soon so perhaps Gordo Broon will bring them home just to ensure victory at home[/cynical].

I disagree, the Falklands were taken from us by force, and when Iraq invaded Kuwait we couldn't just sit back and let it happen (granted because we have a vested financial intererst in Kuwaits output), none the less, it wasn't a political deccision to wade in there, it was protecting an interest.
 

johnmartin

Active Member
I disagree, the Falklands were taken from us by force, and when Iraq invaded Kuwait we couldn't just sit back and let it happen (granted because we have a vested financial intererst in Kuwaits output), none the less, it wasn't a political deccision to wade in there, it was protecting an interest.
Correct 2md. However one could argue that the Falklands was an opportune moment for a government facing difficulties at home. Mrs Thatcher had already started the process to disallow UK passports and citizenship to the Falklands when Argentina invaded. This was seen by Galtieri and the Junta as a sign that Britain wouldn't put up much of a fight. How wrong he was. Thatcher seized the opportunity and the military executed a remarkable campaign in the face of much difficulties.

In the case of Kuwait, I agree we had to be seen to support the United Nations resolution calling for Iraq to withdraw its forces. It could be argued though that Gulf War 1 laid the foundations for our current travails as it put foreign soldiers on the soil of Islams holiest lands.
 

mjwarman

Member
It would be very interseting to see BABB have a go at the big boys, but i'm not sure if their sound would be 'what the adjudicators are looking for', whatever the hell that is!!! :)
 

Dago

Member
It would be very interseting to see BABB have a go at the big boys, but i'm not sure if their sound would be 'what the adjudicators are looking for', whatever the hell that is!!! :)

In order for the BABB to compete they would have to be registered as a band and registered as regular players with the band. That could cramp the style of some of the southern bands and Forces conductors who rely on their Army/Raf/ Naval mates to get them in the prizes!
 

eanto

Member
About 5 years ago I was serving at RAF Northolt, near Middlesex, and my squadron decided to have a posh dinner to celebrate some tosh or other... anyway, as a (rank!) amateur musician I was delighted when my Commanding Officer confirms that he has booked the RAF Central Band for the evening! The dinner goes well and after two hours of playing, the band, up in the minstrels gallery, sounded superb:clap: Congrats to those band members present that night! Imagine my astonishment when I realised that only 5 musicians had been playing all evening:eek: These guys are good!
 

Aardvark

Member
In order for the BABB to compete they would have to be registered as a band and registered as regular players with the band. That could cramp the style of some of the southern bands and Forces conductors who rely on their Army/Raf/ Naval mates to get them in the prizes!

That's a bit harsh, although there are military players who do not for whatever reason commit to a band, I know of quite a number of military bandsmen who are regular members of bands - and that means doing all the jobs their employment allows.

You're surely not telling me it's just Southern bands and military conductors who make use of 'mates' when it comes to contest time.
 

HorniKaz

Supporting Member
That's a bit harsh, although there are military players who do not for whatever reason commit to a band, I know of quite a number of military bandsmen who are regular members of bands - and that means doing all the jobs their employment allows.

You're surely not telling me it's just Southern bands and military conductors who make use of 'mates' when it comes to contest time.

Here here!!

There are certainly a few glory hunters in the armed forces who flit from band to band, particulary to play at Nationals. But there are also some VERY committed players who stick with their band through thick & thin.

I don't think that it has actually been anounced that the BABB has the intentions of competeing against the top names in the brass band world. As far as I can see it, they are a promotional tool for recruiting at events such as Pontins & another outlet for musicians in the army to get back to their grass roots.

That's my opinion anyway. Good luck to them.
 
mod edit: off-topic things removed

However, I have a point about the the Army bands etc...

Just because they are professional, it diesn't always mean they are better...for example...how many professional orchestras in this country have people sitting on the back desk of the 2nd violins who are no where near good enough for the job? It could easily be the case that there are better players in some of the best amature and semi-pro orchestras in the country.

So them being professional musicians doesn't mean that they are going to be better per se, it means they get paid to play. But... I've been to see many Forces wind bands, and they have all sounded great to me!

In the end of the day, shouldn't we welcome a new band and wish them all the best?
 
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RussQ

Member
I'm not so sure..... As good as Yorkshire (sponsored) Bands are; can they really compete with full time professional musicians?
I'm beginning to think this post is a wind up! I was a 'professional' musician in the forces a few years back. Believe me, although there are some terrific players amongst the ranks, they have a mighty long way to go before challenging the likes of Dyke & Grimethorpe. Probably due to the sheer variety of music put in front of them. I'm willing to be proved wrong but for me, the sheer 'depth' of sound would be hard for these guys to match.
 
mod edit: off-topic things removed

However, I have a point about the the Army bands etc...

Just because they are professional, it diesn't always mean they are better...for example...how many professional orchestras in this country have people sitting on the back desk of the 2nd violins who are no where near good enough for the job? It could easily be the case that there are better players in some of the best amature and semi-pro orchestras in the country.

So them being professional musicians doesn't mean that they are going to be better per se, it means they get paid to play. But... I've been to see many Forces wind bands, and they have all sounded great to me!

In the end of the day, shouldn't we welcome a new band and wish them all the best?

Wow - Jan, you may find this hard to believe, but I reckon that the various wars and conflicts going on around the world involving British troops are a pretty important topic to discuss.

However, whilst I appreciate that it is off topic, surley breaking the thread up, and letting people talk about the important stuff in the world - such as brass bands - in one thread, and the boring, unimportant stuff, you know - the things that aren't life and death - such as the various wars happening around the world - could be talked about in the random topics area.

Instead, some strange dictoral rule seems to have taken over, and anyone who has a point to make, has taken offence at some of the things said, or wants to try and work out some opinions for themsleves (Which I would say is just a little bit important) has had their posts removed. Thanks for that.

Not sure what or why, but I did note that one of your fellow mods made an off topic post just before you started your censoring of posts - only one post inbetween (apart from one mod like post from a non mod - thanks for that). Is there a set amount of off topic posts before you start deleting them?

Also, can I have my words back please - via pm or email will be fine.
 

dyl

Active Member
Pop Quiz folks!

Are we:

a) deleting posts from this thread just for the fun of it?

or

b) following a request from a member of the band in question, are simply trying to keep the thread from "descending into a political debate that is destructive to what the BABB is trying to achieve"?

And a multiple choice question to close with:

Are we: stopping anyone trying to start a new thread in 'Random' to discuss the "various wars and conflicts going on around the world involving British troops"

a) yes

or

b) no
 
Pop Quiz folks!

Are we:

a) deleting posts from this thread just for the fun of it?

or

b) following a request from a member of the band in question, are simply trying to keep the thread from "descending into a political debate that is destructive to what the BABB is trying to achieve"?

And a multiple choice question to close with:

Are we: stopping anyone trying to start a new thread in 'Random' to discuss the "various wars and conflicts going on around the world involving British troops"

a) yes

or

b) no

I'm going to continue in the pub quiz style of things...it seems a serious enough way to discuss serious subjects....so here's my answers:

So I guess the clue for question 1 is that you have quoted someone in your answers - so I'm going to go for answer B.

As for the 2nd question - is the answer no (Again, answer B) by any chance?

I think my point is actually nothing to do with multiple choice questions. It's more to do with this idea:

Don't you think if there's an interesing and lively off topic discussion happening, wouldn't it be better for everyone involved if instead of deleting these posts, and censoring these posts, that they were moved to the correct place, so that the discussion could continue?

I've seen it happen in other threads, so surely it could have happened in this - especially given that it is talking about one of the most important things happening at the moment.
 

WoodenFlugel

Moderator
Staff member
You're completely missing the point - we were asked to remove certain posts altogether by a member of the band in question as Dyl stated before. It was not a case of them not being in the right place at all - due to a genuine concern expressed privately to the mods team they have been removed entirely from public view on this site. The other examples you've seen are most likely when a topic takes an interesting tangent - then we will take the decision to split the topic. If we have concerns over a topic we will never split the thread in the manner you state, and we will definitely remove or edit posts we have concerns with if someone else has complained about them first.

In short someone reported posts - which has significant meaning to the mods team - we all get emails informing us of the reported post for example. We have discussed our options, of which there are several ranging from doing nothing at all to removing the whole thread and in this case we felt it appropriate to selectively delete some posts and then edit some others. A warning was also posted stating quite clearly that any more off-topic posts would be removed - which we have done.

While I appreciate you don't know everything that goes on behind the scenes here (and trust me there is a lot) I have to say in my opinion your criticism of Jan's moderating is unfair and disappointing. He has dealt with this thread in exactly the same way that I and any other member of the mods team have done to countless others in the past, and we will continue to work in the same way in the future too.

Now, for the last time - can we please remain on topic, or we will be forced to lock this thread entirely.
 

IanHeard

Member
Mods!
Why have the overtly politcal and contentious (for a remembrance sunday at least!) ramblings of messrs Martin and Hobson been allowed to remain yet other peoples responses to them been zapped by the mods.
Everyone understands the difficulties of the "moderator" but this does you no favours at all!
 

WoodenFlugel

Moderator
Staff member
Everyone understands the difficulties of the "moderator" but this does you no favours at all!

Frankly, neither does discussing this sort of thing in public. Can I suggest any further queries are passed on to us through the correct channels - privately via PM or email - and not posted in threads.

We've posted several warnings now and it would seem that no-one is listening, it also seems that the topic has run it's course so the sensible thing is to lock it.
 
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