BBC Young Musician 2010

Leyfy

Active Member
Agnostic on the whole tenor v french horn debate me. But watching the repeat just now and enjoyning Vinter's "Hunter's Moon".

(Essex Elvis / Phil on Leyfy's computer)
 

Lauradoll

Active Member
English schols run Sept to Aug so if you were an August baby you are the youngest in the year, September will be the oldest so in the last year at school, people will be turning 18 when some have just turned 17 a few days before.
 

Bones

Member
My problem isn't the instrument, it's the guys who think they can play it....

They should be compelled to attend an aural competency/intonation class and refused a permit to take said instrument anywhere near musicians until said competency class has granted said guys with a certificate acknowledging their attainment of an acceptable level of aural competency and intonation.

And it shouldn't end there....A rolling system of inspections without warning should be in place and unsatisfactory players should have their permits revoked....

But who'd be brave enought to step into a roomful of French Horn players?

This will take a lot of thought but I'm sure it would be worth it....

And yet another cracking example of musical snobbery........ I am sure we all made beautiful noises on our respective instruments when we started playing.....

Its a cracking instrument, and like ANY instrument in the hands of the good players, makes a cracking sound....
 

Alyn James

Member
And yet another cracking example of musical snobbery........ I am sure we all made beautiful noises on our respective instruments when we started playing.....

Its a cracking instrument, and like ANY instrument in the hands of the good players, makes a cracking sound....

It's a cracking instrument and I love its sound when done well in the hands of good players. But it usually isn't, as you are well aware. My observation has nothing to do with "beginner" v. "experienced" either. It's more to do with people who are old enough to know their limitations and who should move on to something easier like the trombone....
 

Bones

Member
It's a cracking instrument and I love its sound when done well in the hands of good players. But it usually isn't, as you are well aware. My observation has nothing to do with "beginner" v. "experienced" either. It's more to do with people who are old enough to know their limitations and who should move on to something easier like the trombone....

oooh, ageist now. Surely the concept of music making is all about making music not how good you are or how old you you are. What is this, when you get to 33 you have to stop playing, in a Logan's Run type way. I play golf I am **** at it but I am not giving up. It is all about the enjoyment surely.

Not rising to "easy trombone" debate Alyn. I expect as a doghorn player you are well used to a bit of abuse... :)
 

trumpetmike

Well-Known Member
Speaking of pianists - let's here it for the largely-unacknowledged accompanists at an event of this kind - superb work, one and all.

I believe they prefer to be referred to as collaborative artists, especially when at this sort of level. Let's be perfectly honest, they are playing music that is as difficult (or even more so) than the person taking all the credit.
 

MoominDave

Well-Known Member
And yet another cracking example of musical snobbery........ I am sure we all made beautiful noises on our respective instruments when we started playing.....

Its a cracking instrument, and like ANY instrument in the hands of the good players, makes a cracking sound....

Not sure that Alyn's jokily-phrased but actually quite serious point has really been appreciated here...

I don't believe that you have never found yourself playing in an amateur or even semi-pro orchestra where the bones, tuba and trumpets are all accomplished players who turn up for a rehearsal or two by prior arrangement due to the sparse nature of the parts, but the horns are all subs-paying regulars (often holding committee positions, to boot) who are embarrassingly far from mastery of their instrument. It's frustrating, particularly when you consider how many more notes they get to play in the orchestral repertoire than the other brass players. It's certainly happened to me more times than I can count.

It's a bit of a non-linear learning curve:
Those who are very good at it sound very good.
Those who are good at it sound good.
Those who are dreadful at it sound dreadful.

But those who are merely okay at it also sound dreadful, due to the greater accuracy demanded by the instrument and the harder parts... And there are lots of "okay" French horn players out there, pushing for seats that are beyond their current abilities.
 

GJG

Well-Known Member
... found yourself playing in an amateur or even semi-pro orchestra where the bones, tuba and trumpets are all accomplished players who turn up for a rehearsal or two by prior arrangement due to the sparse nature of the parts, but the horns are all subs-paying regulars (often holding committee positions, to boot) who are embarrassingly far from mastery of their instrument. ...

... been there, got the t-shirt!
 

Alyn James

Member
And yet another cracking example of musical snobbery....

Snob? Moi?

oooh, ageist now. Surely the concept of music making is all about making music not how good you are or how old you you are. What is this, when you get to 33 you have to stop playing, in a Logan's Run type way. I play golf I am **** at it but I am not giving up. It is all about the enjoyment surely.

Not rising to "easy trombone" debate Alyn. I expect as a doghorn player you are well used to a bit of abuse... :)

Ageist? Wha? Wha?? I'm 51 in June mun....how on earth did you get that impression from my post? Read it again please - without distractions and with more care (turn the telly off)...I think these kids who stand up and do what they do are fantastic. I also think the longevity of Peter Roberts and Lyndon Baglin sets us all an example.

If you stand behind a golfer you're pretty safe. The sound of a badly played French Horn curdles your blood never mind where you stand...

Doghorn? Doghorn??!! I played trombone for 5 or 6 years....got bored watching everyone else, decided I wanted more of the action...doghorn???!!!

Not sure that Alyn's jokily-phrased but actually quite serious point has really been appreciated here...

Thanks Dave. Inferential reading is a wonderful skill to possess ( nothing wrong with trombones btw ;) ).
 
Good grief, I'm amazed by a few comments on here, although I'm sure a few are tongue-in-cheek!
There are quite a few of us out there that play both Tenor Horn and French Horn.
Most like me started on Tenor Horn then moved on to French Horn later.
I have to say, the French Horn is considerably more difficult to play, mainly because the range is so huge and you're playing an octave higher up the harmonic series so the notes are much closer together, therefore easier to split. The instrument is much more verstile and definitely capable of a much more powerful sound than the tenor horn (despite some of the comments on here).

The tenor horn is easier to get up to a basically good standard but is quite hard to push it beyond that barrier because of the limitations of the instrument. That's why I have total admiration for people like Sheona White who push the instrument way beyond it's limits and out of it's comfort zone.

One final thing before I shut up about French Horn mouthpieces in Tenor Horns - they make high notes very very easy - that's the only reason I need! :biggrin:
 

worzel

Member
I might suggest you've never heard it played properly.
Probably not. I've only heard them played well on recordings, not live, so my basis for comparison may well be flawed.

I also think you might be in the minority thinking that Tenor Horns are in some way better. Ask yourself this; if the tenor horn is so much better than a french horn, why are they not used in any other form of music making than the brass band?
I don't know about that. Is a trumpet therefore "better" than a cornet? As well has these similar instruments having different functions in different ensembles, a lot of the make up of many ensembles is largely historical anyway. I believe hunting horns (from which French horns evolved) were in use in orchestras long before the invention of the tenor horn.
 

worzel

Member
There are quite a few of us out there that play both Tenor Horn and French Horn.
Most like me started on Tenor Horn then moved on to French Horn later.
I have to say, the French Horn is considerably more difficult to play, mainly because the range is so huge and you're playing an octave higher up the harmonic series so the notes are much closer together, therefore easier to split. The instrument is much more verstile and definitely capable of a much more powerful sound than the tenor horn (despite some of the comments on here).
That's interesting.

The tenor horn is easier to get up to a basically good standard but is quite hard to push it beyond that barrier because of the limitations of the instrument. That's why I have total admiration for people like Sheona White who push the instrument way beyond it's limits and out of it's comfort zone.
Do you mean it is limited compared to other valved instruments, or are you just referring to its limitations compared to a French horn?

So, are they ever played open? If not, what function does that huge bell have?
 

Bones

Member
Snob? Moi?



Ageist? Wha? Wha?? I'm 51 in June mun....how on earth did you get that impression from my post? Read it again please - without distractions and with more care (turn the telly off)...I think these kids who stand up and do what they do are fantastic. I also think the longevity of Peter Roberts and Lyndon Baglin sets us all an example.

If you stand behind a golfer you're pretty safe. The sound of a badly played French Horn curdles your blood never mind where you stand...

Doghorn? Doghorn??!! I played trombone for 5 or 6 years....got bored watching everyone else, decided I wanted more of the action...doghorn???!!!



Thanks Dave. Inferential reading is a wonderful skill to possess ( nothing wrong with trombones btw ;) ).

Happy birthday for June then..... I know many smashing players in their 50's and beyond. Prob more so on the Jazz circuit, must be the music.

The sound of a badly played anything, makes my blood curdle, but I try to look at it in the context of the person playing the instrument. DO they get anything fro it, if so, great. Mind you I do completely agree with the whole orchestral scene, and the ability of trumpets, troms, and tubs aot turn up and do the gig. Prob why we get a bad rep in orchestras:)

You wanted action so you went on doghorn..... I wanted les action so I went on trom....... Strange :)

51, you've got 20 years yet, then try BBb....
 

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