Bad Losers

[jackyboy]

:evil: Why are bandspeople such bad losers ?? Todays Crich contest provided some good band entertainment, but why do we get the old hat of "we were robbed.". Fair results were awarded i felt. Stop the moaners!

 

[JessopSmythe]

Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser

Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot

Show me a good loser and I'll show you a man who's playing golf with his boss

 

[Janet Watkins]

Does anyone have the results from Crich?

Janet

 

[satchmo shaz]

carlton won
then enderby
darley dale
bakewell i think.
whitwell next
long eaton 6th
harworth 7th
newhall 8th
kirkby 9th
then dearne
and rolls royce

think thats it!

we all had a good day, I was happy with my bands playing etc and we had lots of nice comments, a nice well ran social event in a lovely setting

 

[Baldeagle]

The full results are -

1. Carlton Brass 189
2. Enderby Youth 187
3. Darley Dale 186


Highest 3rd section band Whitwell Welfare
Highest 4th section Band Bakewell Silver
Soloist Prize Ken Fryer Darley Dale

 

[Mike Saville]

:evil: Why are bandspeople such bad losers ?? Todays Crich contest provided some good band entertainment, but why do we get the old hat of "we were robbed.". Fair results were awarded i felt. Stop the moaners!

Part of the reason I guess is becuase bandspeople put so much time and effort into preparing for a contest. Also the results are an easy target as we all know the problems with the current adjudication system. If this were improved folk would just find another reason/person to blame as to why they didn't do better.

 

[Valvecap]

Agree with you Mike - bands put a lot of effort and give up a lot of time to go contesting - 2 or three months hard slog is all for a 15 minute performance. Sometimes a band plays badly and gets placed accordingly - players moan but deep down know they were not up to speed. Occasionally band plays well and gets placed badly - it happens and may lead to issues with adjudication.

Comments i have seen like "percussion too loud at J" (when there was no percussionist on the stage.... dont help people take "interesting" decisions any easier.

Any loser in a competition will look for something to blame other than themselves (in this case, the band) but if Adjudication is correct, then its just a case of been honest with ourselves... so the comment should maybe be

"we was robbed".... IMHO

 

[Di B]

How about 'there are bad losers because there are bad winners?'

One of my gripes are bands who are so full of themselves that they are bragging about winning even before they started to play! Have to admit, that if a band like this wins I cannot help but be a bad loser. I guess that cockniess and over confidence is not an attractive trait! I do think its a shame though. We should all be supportive of one another and have friendly rivalry. We shouldn't be trying to outdo each other and turn a contest into an alternative boxing ring!

Saying that, wherever our band has come, if I know of a band that has done well and has struggled along the way I am happy that they have acheived success (genuinely, I am!!!)

I think the other thing that makes me personally a bad loser is pathetic remarks from the adjudicator. Telling everyone they are good doesn't help, neither does 'this isn't my favourite piece' (contests (even own choice) should be about playing capabilities and extracting the music surely?). Adjudicators need to give constructive criticism with encouragement. That gives the band something to work on that they can aim for and they don't feel too shitty. I personally don't believe it is too much to ask and do feel that there would be a lot less bad feeling if the band who was placed 2nd and the band placed 15th didn't have very similar remarks!!!!

Ohhh, that was a good rant! :lol:

 

[Baldeagle]

I get the feeling that some of the previous comments might have been aimed at my band . So here are the remarks from Roy Roe for Carlton Brass at this years Brass n Trams Open event.




North East Midlands Brass Band Association
Order of Play 5



Adjudicators Remarks

The Waltonian

Good bright opening detail is good, good sounds displayed, this continues throughout. Good opening number

Prelude 49th Paralle

Tuneful opening, phrasing is good, and some lovely sounds displayed from all sections, all moves along so very much under control, most enjoyable.

Silver Threads amongst the Gold

Good controlled opening, musical opening theme (B) not always controlled in cornets, good Bass line noted in support of soloist, also ensemble supports soloist very well. Soloist.
, very good playing, lovely sounds, just occasionally gets a little untidy but generally well in command, most enjoyable.

We’ll Meet Again

Pity trombone intonation mars opening, but all settles in main theme. All moves along very well, with some good musical detail, good work from all soloists into a good close.

The Contestor

Opening needs to be a little more precise overall, nice cornet, and good dynamic detail, Bass solo lower band sustain all note values. Trio, some neat playing here, good bass line, Final section played in fine style.

Czardas

Neat precise opening moves along at good pace, detail is good and creates excitement throughout. Well done.

Olympic Theme and Fanfare

Convincing opening, would prefer a little less tempo – allows music to speak, detail is good and playing convincing. Fine Finish.

Very Good Programme very well presented and played. Thank You Roy Roe 6/7/03

Points 189

Placing 1

 

[rutty]

I liked the belly dancers

 

[Di B]

I get the feeling that some of the previous comments might have been aimed at my band . So here are the remarks from Roy Roe for Carlton Brass at this years Brass n Trams Open event.
/quote]

Not your band.... but maybe a player that has been associated with your band in the past, yes. (hey, I'm honest!) Then again, I could probably reel off a load of names that the above also applies to and none of them would be in relation to Carlton!

Just wanted to inform it was a general gripe about general banding and not an attack of any kind. I have even been in bands/seen bands where coming second was seen as a disappointment not an achievement as they were so confident and I think it is a shame. I have also seen and heard people calling their own players and blaming them for their bad result and people saying that another band rigged it/got ringers in/had a fluke. It just gets nasty and I think as a community as a whole we should support each other more... there are less bands around as it is nowadays.

Banding should be enjoyed first and foremost in my own opinion. Winning is the icing on the cake and should be enjoyed thoroughly when acheived!

Congrats for winning (dare I say again under the circumstances of this post? *grins*) and best of luck next weekend! If you could post the results on here it would be appreciated!

 

[iancwilx]

At the 1st SectionArea about 3 years ago (Music for the Common Man),one of the Childs Bros was in the box (I forget which one) - the remarks were excellent - like YBS on a good day - he praised all sections and soloists and liked the reading - We ended up 10th !!! - no constructive crit at all.
Senior trophy this year - band played well, soloists excelled - the only criticism in the remarks was that he didn't care for the tempos - position 20th (Last) - surely if we were that bad he could have pointed out the failings in more detail.
I believe that some (? majority) of judges sort out the top six placings but just "shuffle the pack" for the remainder - writing them all bland, encouraging and totally useless remarks and just numbering them 7th to last after the last band has performed.
This is especially easy when only placings are given and no points.
Unfortunately our choice of actions seems to be "Like it or Lump it" !!

 

[Tuba Girl]

I have to agree. Why is it the bands placed lower than 6th more or less have exactly the same adjudications. My band this year have done alright but not the best but get faultless adjudications when we are placed 7th and so on. Why are we not told of our faults so we can improve?
I have to admit initially I am a bad loser, if I think we have played well, but a few pints later and I am fine.
:roll: :roll:

 

[youngman]

I get the feeling that some of the previous comments might have been aimed at my band . So here are the remarks from Roy Roe for Carlton Brass at this years Brass n Trams Open event.
/quote]

Not your band.... but maybe a player that has been associated with your band in the past, yes. (hey, I'm honest!) Then again, I could probably reel off a load of names that the above also applies to and none of them would be in relation to Carlton!

Can't guess who you are on about di !!!!!!!
Certainly at leamington the quote" winning is getting boring" seems to have an air of arrogance about it. Fortunately the culprit has left the said band, but it did upset a fair few folk at the contest. Be good losers........ we have had plenty of practice! :twisted:

 

[Di B]

*sighs* There I am attempting to be a fine example of discretion (don't laugh people!!!!!) and you had to come along Youngman! lol!

Big feet an all that eh? :wink:

It was that statement that did peev me though... even beer didn't help me calm down much!!!!!

Interesting thing about the similar comments on adjudicators remarks though.... lack of constuctive criticism seems to be a major fault (with the minority at least). Just wondered if there was anything we could do about it? After all, we now have the Association of adjudicators and surely if enough people got together from this list supporting the request that adjudicators provide something for bands to work on we could submit it?

Or am I just trying to change something that will never change here? Maybe I am just having one of those 'I am all powerful' days!!! *grins*

Lemme know what people think!

 

[Brian]

I am constantly amazed at the comments that come out on this forum ! If you cannot accept the adjudicators decision "DON'T GO TO THE CONTEST" !.. If you have satisfied your Musical Director with the standard of your playing, you should be satisfied. Remember it's the decison of one person who awarded the prize, or didn't as the case may be..Ask yourself this question " Am I as qualified as the adjudicator to do the job he was employed to do to the best of his ability" if not stop moaning about it. Maybe you ought to consider enrolling on the Adjudicators Course run by the National Association of Brass Band Conductors..Then you will realise what a very difficult task adjudicating really is..Adjudicators only please the ones they give prizes to, so keep practising and maybe one day you will be in the fortunate position of getting in the prizes..Sharon (Shaz) has the right attitude..she was satisfied with her Bands performance, and thats as it should be...

 

[JessopSmythe]

I think that just about says it. Couldnt agree more

 

[jackyboy]

WELL SAID BRIAN ! Its about time we got some constructive comments here. About time you came back and sorted the banding movement out :idea:

 

[Roger Thorne]

If you cannot accept the adjudicators decision "DON'T GO TO THE CONTEST"

That reminded me of a letter I read recently on another well known Brass Band web site:

I write whilst my blood is still boiling about another naff result: Grand Shield 2002 - last place (the judges got it badly wrong). Area 2003 - last place (the judge got it badly wrong - this is a fact as the adjudication did not match our performance - it highlighted clear mistakes in the performance that weren't made by us. This is black and white and shouldn't happen so I can only presume that we were erroneously awarded last - but we have no right of appeal here)

Senior Cup 2003 - 8th place - condemned to at least one further year scatting around the lower reaches of top level banding...(oh yes - and the judges got it badly wrong) I can accept that a duff performance only deserves a duff result - our performance at Tameside a few weeks ago was very patchy - superbly and accurately summed up by Kevin Bolton in his remarks - and he gave us third place. No complaints... in fact can we clone him? It would certainly help to solve the problem.

Today Wingates played a superb performance from number 12 and I am extremely disappointed not to have won. There were a couple of clips - and so the door was left open, but to not even have gained promotion back to the Grand Shield when the performance easily deserved it is nothing less than sick. Have we upset someone? Is it a Masonic thing?

Congratulations to those bands who have qualified several of whom did give fine performances, but in placing us 8th the judges got it wrong - it's that simple.

Now are the judges entirely to blame? Possibly not... in the hall used for the Senior cup the box was off the the left of the band so the cornets were pointing straight at the box, the troms straight away... and the box itself looked sturdy enough to sail across the Atlantic in, 3 quarter inch ply wood - it must have excellent acoustic qualities (NOT!) What other form of music making competition imposes has such a crassly stupid system of judging?

Why do we travel thousands of miles every year to rehearsals to subject ourselves to this nonsense? Brass Band Contests are dying - and this is why. The question is do those who control decisions about things like this have the balls to do something about it? I think not - so nothing will change and the carcass of banding will continue to rot.

The future is open adjudication - if a judge cannot be truly impartial then he should not judge at all. Where there are multiple judges they should NOT be allowed to confer and should allocate rankings independently (as at Cambridge)

All I want to know, when I am slogging up and down the motorway to rehearsals, is to know that when we come to perform for real on the contest platform we will be dealt with fairly and evenly.

Frankly I don't care who I upset now - it's time to make waves to improve things for everyone. Is this sour grapes? Absolutely - and I make no apology for them because as I have said if we deserved the run of results we've had I would have no problem in accepting them. Get it sorted banding - time is running out!

The joys of Banding, eh!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[aimee_euph]

One of my gripes are bands who are so full of themselves that they are bragging about winning even before they started to play! Have to admit, that if a band like this wins I cannot help but be a bad loser. I guess that cockniess and over confidence is not an attractive trait! I do think its a shame though.

My youth band have won at the Youth Nationals 5years (maybe more, dont quite know...) on the row, from 1997 - 2002 the A band won their section they entered, came top in 3different sections (4 if you include the name change). Then we had a year off, and the B Band entered and won this year.
Now, i want to win as much as the next person, but i can't quite help having the feeling that we have won before the results are announced. And all the times I have played in the contest, we have won.
However, at contests such as entertainment ones etc. it is rather annoying when you know your band was the better on the day (without being cocky, i listened to the majority and without being biased, okay maybe a little bit...) and another band win because they used a flag and some hats and percussion instruments etc. Also, our conductor NEVER EVER speaks at entertainment contests because she knows it may lead to biastry for the band, so she gets well spoken (non-scousers) to speak to introduce the pieces etc. Quite a few bands have their fairly famous (well known) conductors to speak at these particular contests and they have won quite a few times, this is what makes me a bad loser!!!

However, it cheeses me off that our training band won at the youth nationals this year, and i didnt play and i thought they were the best band on the day, and i listened to them all and i wasn't really biased because i wasn't playing.
on our way out, me and my dad overheard some people talking saying "St Helens Youth only won because that Lynda Nicholson conducts them and they always win. It's a fix."
Could it be that St. Helens Yotuh are a good band, and always have been?! Fair enough we lose players due to uni etc. but we have a good conductor and it just so happens that she made Rainford Silver Band go up from 4th section to 2nd section in 2years.

It's just irratating!!