Anonymous accounts and the future of tMp
- Thread starter Pauli Walnuts
- Start date
midlandman
Member
DS2014
Active Member
Just a thought: I was a member of an internet forum where they could ban particular IP addresses. I know it doesn't totally stop someone, but it means they would never be able to access the site again from their home or wherever it was from where they made the offending posting (well, that's how I understood it worked). It would certainly make life more difficult for those who were seeking to troll or flame.
MoominDave
Well-Known Member
Sorry you've had enough of the moderatorship, Mr Walnuts. You've been doing a fine job of it. Good luck on your own, Peter!
It's funny how forums have gone... I'm on a few, and it does seem to be a pattern that the ownership of them seems to end up in the hands of people whose motivation for doing it is not at all clear to the members, and whose activities are pretty much invisible to them. For example, the trombone forum is, although still much more active than TMP, regularly troubled by the point that their owner seems to have no interest in the place beyond doing the minimum to keep it online - and has acted that way for most of a decade. I don't understand the set-up. Is money made somehow out of it? If not, I'm really really puzzled...
Regarding the now possibly moot point of FB logins... I tend to agree that it is useful to allow anonymity on TMP - or at least it has been so in the past, before all the 'normal' traffic drained away to Facebook. Compared to FB, TMP is a deluxe place to talk about banding - a proper indexing system on a site dedicated to us, unlike FB's completely useless indexing non-system (try finding an old group post there - often impossible beyond a week or so). If we could allow both TMP logins and FB logins to TMP - and the ability to link a FB account to a TMP account? - then we could have the best of both worlds - the greater user base of FB promoting a thick strand of 'normal' talk, which would prevent the place from being swamped by small amounts of anonymous controversial posting, as, in the absence of much of the chitter-chatter that used to occur, it does tend to be. If somehow a FB group could be synced with TMP, that would make it even easier for FB users to post here.
It's funny how forums have gone... I'm on a few, and it does seem to be a pattern that the ownership of them seems to end up in the hands of people whose motivation for doing it is not at all clear to the members, and whose activities are pretty much invisible to them. For example, the trombone forum is, although still much more active than TMP, regularly troubled by the point that their owner seems to have no interest in the place beyond doing the minimum to keep it online - and has acted that way for most of a decade. I don't understand the set-up. Is money made somehow out of it? If not, I'm really really puzzled...
Regarding the now possibly moot point of FB logins... I tend to agree that it is useful to allow anonymity on TMP - or at least it has been so in the past, before all the 'normal' traffic drained away to Facebook. Compared to FB, TMP is a deluxe place to talk about banding - a proper indexing system on a site dedicated to us, unlike FB's completely useless indexing non-system (try finding an old group post there - often impossible beyond a week or so). If we could allow both TMP logins and FB logins to TMP - and the ability to link a FB account to a TMP account? - then we could have the best of both worlds - the greater user base of FB promoting a thick strand of 'normal' talk, which would prevent the place from being swamped by small amounts of anonymous controversial posting, as, in the absence of much of the chitter-chatter that used to occur, it does tend to be. If somehow a FB group could be synced with TMP, that would make it even easier for FB users to post here.
Euphonium Lite
Active Member
Likewise - Sorry to see you go Pauli. I suppose at the end of the day, historically these were the discussions in the pub or the venue bar afterwards - "How did Fodens win? Why were Leyland only 6th. Reckon its a conspiracy...."
Now its out of the pub and onto the net. I suppose the punch-ups are more metaphorical than actual when it gets heated, but theyre still there. You can bar people but eventually most people just won't come in, and those that do are the ones looking to see if there's "trouble at mill".
Our hobby does stir emotions - we are artists - or aspire to be - after all, and its only right that we are concerned for its future. I don't think any of us claim that its perfect, but it gets more right than wrong. When all said and done adjudicators CAN get things wrong sometimes - just as even top players can play the odd bum note. It may not happen the higher you go, but it still happens.
Now its out of the pub and onto the net. I suppose the punch-ups are more metaphorical than actual when it gets heated, but theyre still there. You can bar people but eventually most people just won't come in, and those that do are the ones looking to see if there's "trouble at mill".
Our hobby does stir emotions - we are artists - or aspire to be - after all, and its only right that we are concerned for its future. I don't think any of us claim that its perfect, but it gets more right than wrong. When all said and done adjudicators CAN get things wrong sometimes - just as even top players can play the odd bum note. It may not happen the higher you go, but it still happens.
Ianroberts
Well-Known Member
The biggest problem herte to me is that if anyone dare post a funny remark, a different opinion to the norm etc etc they are called a troll, some of these name callers are more trollish (is that a word ?) than those they accuse, and love nothing more than being able to wag a disaproving finger ! I beleive we should talk on here as we would in the pub with freinds, however, that is no where near good enough for the self appointed great and good on here. I wont name names, but they are obvious and will probable wag a ginger at this !
MoominDave
Well-Known Member
I'd like to think that a good fraction of the stuff I post both here and on FB offers differing opinions to the norm - inasmuch as any norm even exists. Nobody has ever called me a troll in either place (I think, off the top of my head...).
Funny stuff? Great. But humour's very personal. One man's legendary laff is another's Bob Monkhouse tribute. Fact is that this isn't a pub discussion... You wouldn't go into the pub and pass around bits of paper with things written down on them - you talk and banter, and go back and forth in a way that often doesn't have to make much sense to work. When you slow it all down to forum speed, this kind of stuff really suffers badly. Funny has to get better to work... And those that are the life and soul in the pub can find that actually they don't really know how to talk in this setting in a way that works at all.
It goes the other way too - speaking for myself, I'm often a bit quiet in person. The one who's drifted off into thought in the corner. This way of communicating works a lot better for me than pub banter.
Funny stuff? Great. But humour's very personal. One man's legendary laff is another's Bob Monkhouse tribute. Fact is that this isn't a pub discussion... You wouldn't go into the pub and pass around bits of paper with things written down on them - you talk and banter, and go back and forth in a way that often doesn't have to make much sense to work. When you slow it all down to forum speed, this kind of stuff really suffers badly. Funny has to get better to work... And those that are the life and soul in the pub can find that actually they don't really know how to talk in this setting in a way that works at all.
It goes the other way too - speaking for myself, I'm often a bit quiet in person. The one who's drifted off into thought in the corner. This way of communicating works a lot better for me than pub banter.
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John Brooks
Well-Known Member
I too am sorry to see Pauli go (and others before him) but I'm more sorry for the reasoning. I don't know if it's a generational thing, but it never occurred to me to sign on with anything but my own name. I don't know how it works today, but is it possible for tMP to know the identity of members, disclosed during the sign-on process, while the individual identities of those who choose to remain anonymous in their postings continues? Would that help resolve some of these issues? I fear that one day soon, Peter will decide he can't keep up on his own and it will be RIP tMP.
For some time I was a member of the Rotary Club and they had (and maybe still do) "The Four-Way Test of the things we think, say and do: 1. Is it the TRUTH?; 2. Is it FAIR to all concerned; 3. Will it build GOODWILL and BETTER FRIENDSHIPS; 4. Will it be BENEFICIAL to all concerned?" I found those principles very meaningful and wonder what tMP would be like if we all followed them or were at least guided by them. By the way, the upper case text was in the original!
For some time I was a member of the Rotary Club and they had (and maybe still do) "The Four-Way Test of the things we think, say and do: 1. Is it the TRUTH?; 2. Is it FAIR to all concerned; 3. Will it build GOODWILL and BETTER FRIENDSHIPS; 4. Will it be BENEFICIAL to all concerned?" I found those principles very meaningful and wonder what tMP would be like if we all followed them or were at least guided by them. By the way, the upper case text was in the original!
With my ordinary member's hat on, not speakinbg with official tMP authority, I agree with you Ian. If I think back to our early days, there was a lot of sarcasm and flippancy that certain current members would be constantly reporting. My personal feeling is that we should let things ride as far as possible, the drawback being that if things do then get out of hand, we can be accused of being heavy-handed.
Mesmerist
Well-Known Member
I prefer the semi anonymity on here to the Facebook account. On there I have such a range of family members, school Mums, work colleagues ect. that I find it restricting and bland, as in the effort not to offend, or more likely bore. anyone, I tend not to post much at all. On here we are all linked by our hobby and I used to enjoy the mix of wisdom, banter and sometimes silliness on the variety of threads. Here I could mix it up with Messers Hibberd and Butler (both now FB friends) but we are all much more restrained over there. probably for the same reason - non banding people reading everything. Like Moomin, I am quiet and thoughtful in real life and prefer this medium to express my banding personality without feeling restricted by what goes on in my personal life. I'm voting for anonymity but am perfectly happy for the TMP moderators to know any details they need.
marksmith
Active Member
It would be a pity to lose this forum as it does allow us to wear our heart on our sleeve.
The banter is an important aspect of these open forums and we all benefit from it's presence.
I have sensed a resignation to an inevitable demise of this platform, which would leave us without a valued communication tool. So sad.
Self- discipline is all that is required for open identification of users, needing to hide behind anonymity does suggest ulterior motives to a membership of a forum of like-minded individuals.
If you can't say things as yourself, don't say them at all, as your intention is open to suspicion.
A log of members' personal identities by a responsible server is not unreasonable in today's climate and blatant mis-use of social media.
So for me, a mixed response, have a user name (my own being 'euphful') but expect to be identifiable should the need arise.
May we long continue to share opinions.
The banter is an important aspect of these open forums and we all benefit from it's presence.
I have sensed a resignation to an inevitable demise of this platform, which would leave us without a valued communication tool. So sad.
Self- discipline is all that is required for open identification of users, needing to hide behind anonymity does suggest ulterior motives to a membership of a forum of like-minded individuals.
If you can't say things as yourself, don't say them at all, as your intention is open to suspicion.
A log of members' personal identities by a responsible server is not unreasonable in today's climate and blatant mis-use of social media.
So for me, a mixed response, have a user name (my own being 'euphful') but expect to be identifiable should the need arise.
May we long continue to share opinions.
I have no problem speaking for myself, and am happy to debate and defend my opinions. However my opinions are not always in tune with the banding establishment, so I post anonymously to protect any band I'm associated with from potential backlash. You may think this overly cautious, but we've seen time and again there many 'interesting' senior characters in banding who are unusually quick to offence, so I prefer not to take the risk, however small.
I agree with others that, if you're going to apply facebook-like credentials here, you may as well remove the middleman and post directly on Facebook, which it appears the vast majority of tMP members must already be doing. Which is a shame.
BrianT
Member
Bob Sherunkle
Active Member
Anno Draconis
Well-Known Member
As an example, both Mike Lyons and myself have been phoned and threatened with legal action in the past as a result of things posted under our own names on here (and this is a matter of record on a much older thread, so I'm not revealing anything by pointing this out). I can therefore certainly see why, if one were to want to say something a bit controversial, one might wish to avoid such threats, and for a while afterwards I seriously considered setting up a second, anonymous account and doing all my posting from that.
However since I don't post anything in order to deliberately provoke or cause offence, I saw no reason why my opinions should not be seen to come from me. If someone wants to threaten me or any band I'm associated with as a result of anything I've said on a banding forum then that's a bit sad, but bring it on, I'll stand by pretty much everything. Equally, since my name's on every post, I don't post stuff that I'm not prepared to stand up and defend. The writ has yet to hit my doormat.
The tendency of the banding Great and Good to get right on their high horses and threaten the site owner with M'Learned Friends every time they read something to their detriment on here has been, I think, a big contributing factor to the site's demise as a place for interesting discussions. Because John couldn't risk actually being sued, the moderation had to get ever tighter, which was seen (sometimes rightly) as stifling robust discussion and making the site just another anodyne place to discuss your favourite flavour of valve oil. So some members pushed the other way, tightening the spiral. If the site had been owned by someone with enough money (and chippiness!) to use Private Eye's Arkell vs. Pressdram defence whenever threatened, things might have been different.
Ironically, with an American owner and hosting I imagine the threat to the site of UK litigation is somewhat diminished, but I think the game has long since moved on.
Currently this is running not far off 50/50 so clearly not enough support for this idea to effect any change. Of course, a large number have already voted with their feet and disappeared from here and the current turnout on this vote is just 22 people but that's what they call democracy.
Bbmad
Active Member
Maybe someone can set up a final goodbyes thread for those that are going to be leaving?
