Absolute beginner torn between playing Baritone/Euphonium or Trombone

No half decent trombone player uses those positions.

I possibly wasn't very clear: when I said "picture", I meant the image at the bottom showing how far out the slide travels for each position. As @2nd tenor said, they are a starting point and need to be tweaked ad hoc, but they are still an improvement over @PeterBale's suggestion of trial and error.

As for alternate positions, I wouldn't tell a new cornet player to use 2+3 for third space C, I'd tell them to use open at first and only tell them they could use 2+3 later when they had developed confidence and some skill on the instrument. Likewise, I wouldn't tell a new trombonist to use 5th for that C at first. One of the mistakes I made early on with the trombone was trying to use alternates too soon, and getting wrongfooted by the additional layer of thinking that I wasn't ready for. The alternate positions, and when to use them, come with time.
 

Jack E

Well-Known Member
Noting that slurring on trombone is not the same as slurring on a valved instrument - everything must be touched very gently with the articulation: slurring across the slide without articulation is only possible on some intervals, and can be an ugly effect if mishandled; slurring along the slide without articulation is better known as glissando.
Dave - can you clarify for me, please?

I presume that 'slurring along the slide' means slurring by pushing the slide out, or pulling it in; but what is 'slurring across the slide'?

Many thanks,

Jack
 

MoominDave

Well-Known Member
“Slurring across the slide” is exactly the thing that David Broad talked about above - making the slide length longer when moving to a higher note (or vice versa). Exactly the same effect exists on your baritone, but the more conical bore forgives it better than on a trombone - e.g. compare how slurring from upper E to F has a more natural smoothness if you finger the E on 1+2 rather than open. Then compare how the more conical again euph doesn’t show it quite so much. The valves are a big aid here - the movement being so much less than that of a slide means that the change between notes can barely be perceived. So the trombonist needs to disguise the join with a bit of tongue articulation, which also has the advantage that they don’t end up having different-sounding slurs on some intervals to the rest.

These are smaller effects, not something for the OP to worry about yet.
 

Jack E

Well-Known Member
Thank you, Dave; I've noticed trombone players lengthening the slide, and then playing a higher note - and it always looks weird, to me!

To quote the Fundamental Precept espoused by the Alfred Garnett School of Philosophy:

"Werrrlll - it stands ter reason, dunnit? The longer the pipe, the lower the note - it's the same as yer actual church organ, innit?"

But that's bones players for you; happy to challenge the Laws of Physics, Logic and Reason :confused: :eek: :rolleyes:

Jack
 

David Evans

Active Member
Jack, try playing a trill on your baritone from upper E to F using firstly 0 to 1, then try again using using 1+2 to 1 and you will see exactly what DT means, it's also less likely to drop to the D by mistake.
 

Jack E

Well-Known Member
Good evening, David - yes, my tutor has gone into some of those variations on fingering, and needing to do a fast trill was one of the situations he mentioned where alternative fingering can prove useful. But I do take the point made by @HelenPlaysBaritone, above, where she said:

"I wouldn't tell a new cornet player to use 2+3 for third space C, I'd tell them to use open at first and only tell them they could use 2+3 later when they had developed confidence and some skill on the instrument. Likewise, I wouldn't tell a new trombonist to use 5th for that C at first. One of the mistakes I made early on with the trombone was trying to use alternates too soon, and getting wrong-footed by the additional layer of thinking that I wasn't ready for."

I am currently at the stage of (metaphorically) learning to walk with my baritone, so I'm concentrating on the basic fingering for the time being!

With best regards,

Jack
 

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