4 Bars Rest interview.

fsteers

Member
Yes, I've experienced adjudicators saying that they're looking for a performance that's well within the band's capability (either in the registration meeting before the contest or in their summing up). It struck me as fair enough, though telling the contest secretaries this half an hour before the contest is a bit late for anything to be done about it. For own choice contests I think that information about what the adjudicator will be looking for would be useful if it were circulated when the choice of adjudicator is known (maybe this happens in some instances, but I haven't experiened it).

Maybe I don't understand the goal of own choice contests, but if the goal is to allow bands to show themselves in the best possible light, why in the world would a MD choose a piece slightly or greatly beyond the capabilities of the band, and why should an adjudicator of an own choice contest need to tell the contest secretaries that's what he or she is looking for? :confused:
 

Splitzer

Member
Hang on a minute!! My band did play the piece, our soloists (our principal cornet in particular) was amazing!! I don't in anyway blame any of our players or our MD for our result. We just weren't lucky. The adjudicators didn't find our performance appealing.
I find it quite offensive that you've made these comments. All 17 bands in our section did a sterling job with the piece and I have the upmost respect for them all.
I don't see why you feel the need to beat bands down who are trying their best. Are you the best player that ever lived? I think not!! :mad:

defered success? I hope your bands brilliance gets the recognition it so deserves next time.
 

mikelyons

Supporting Member
IMHO, Contesting needs to be kept in its place. The only purpose of contesting is to improve the standard of your and your band's playing. By the time you actually get on the stage, you already all have the main prize because the extra rehearsals you have attended and the extra work you have put in have all resulted in better performing, improved playing technique and so on. What one or two men in or out of a box have to say about your performance is a purely subjective opinion on your performance. Who cares?

If I come off the stage thinking that I have put in the best performance I can, then I am satisfied. What more is there to playing?
 

mikelyons

Supporting Member
IMHO, Contesting needs to be kept in its place. The only purpose of contesting is to improve the standard of your and your band's playing. By the time you actually get on the stage, you already all have the main prize because the extra rehearsals you have attended and the extra work you have put in have all resulted in better performing, improved playing technique and so on. What one or two men in or out of a box have to say about your performance is a purely subjective opinion on your performance. Who cares?

If I come off the stage thinking that I have put in the best performance I can, then I am satisfied. What more is there to playing?

(******* editing limit!!! :hammer:)
BTW, Mr Buckley's bullying responses are well known hereabouts. I also have been the recipient of "the phonecall". I hadn't realised at the time that he had a snitch, sneaking about and eavesdropping. I thought he had read my posts himself.

To that person: I don't know what your game is, but you must have very little of any real importance to do. You have my sincere sympathy and pity that your life is so small.
 

fartycat

Member
I haven't either, but I have heard winning bandsmen say they didn't deserve to win......

Bayerd, I've said it many many times. But that's contesting. Sometimes you get 1st off a slightly under par performance. Sometimes you get 6th off an amazing run through.
 

Splitzer

Member
It strikes me that pretty much all of us involved in this thread (myself included) are not involved in banding at a very high level - certainly not the level at which Mr Buckley has played for 25 yrs with at Tred, or adjudicated at since.
Perhaps he just has to put it bluntly, more idea what he is on about than most of us.
Judging 2nd/ 3rd sect must be difficult as you are mostly looking for least worst rather than best performances, and just maybe he actually got it right.
 

Brenda

Member
But only when it is actually constructive - merely saying "didn't work" or that no cornet can play in the authentically vibrato-laden style do not qualify as constructive from my perspective.

Are we still discussing the interview? I don't see any reference to "vibrato-laden" there. Vibrato has to be the least well-used device in contemporary band performance - but I'm sure this has been covered elsewhere. Mr B. is talking about musicality, not steam-driven mechanical vibrato.
 

simonium

Member
Are we still discussing the interview? I don't see any reference to "vibrato-laden" there. Vibrato has to be the least well-used device in contemporary band performance - but I'm sure this has been covered elsewhere. Mr B. is talking about musicality, not steam-driven mechanical vibrato.

I was being facetitious about Buckley's undoubted high quality playing abilities, albeit 40 years ago. Nobody would think about inviting Stirling Moss to analyse modern formula one simply because he was good at it himself in the past, with vastly different parameters, but adjudicators can get away with having little or no experience of modern banding - and in no way am I saying this is the case with Brian Buckley. My point is that when he was a player what he liked / likes may have little or no relevance to players, and to say that nobody could play with warmth is patronising at best and deeply insulting at worst. Perhaps we should discard the classic performances and players of yesterday and let new standards be established, as it is apparent that some people, judging modern bands on modern pieces, cannot see past vintage playing styles and methods.
 

Bandito

New Member
Section 2 Adjudicators

It's easy to forget that there were two adjudicators Lynda Nicholson and Brian Buckley. If you put Lynda's comments alongside Brian's, as we did, you may notice a number of striking differences of opinion regarding the various passages. Good ensemble vs. poor ensemble, poor tuning vs. good full sound, rythmically solid vs. parts not knitting nicely. :confused: It's clear who's opinions counted in the end. :D If there is to be more than one adjudicator then there should be three such that there is always a tie breaker.
 

Super Ph

Member
I was being facetitious about Buckley's undoubted high quality playing abilities, albeit 40 years ago. Nobody would think about inviting Stirling Moss to analyse modern formula one simply because he was good at it himself in the past, with vastly different parameters, but adjudicators can get away with having little or no experience of modern banding - and in no way am I saying this is the case with Brian Buckley. My point is that when he was a player what he liked / likes may have little or no relevance to players, and to say that nobody could play with warmth is patronising at best and deeply insulting at worst. Perhaps we should discard the classic performances and players of yesterday and let new standards be established, as it is apparent that some people, judging modern bands on modern pieces, cannot see past vintage playing styles and methods.

maybe you could explain what has changed in the last 40 years that means a good musical line played with a good sound is no longer necessary. saying nobody could play with warmth is only insulting if everyone was playing with a lot of warmth, which i very much doubt in this 2nd section contest in an unflattering acoustic. i'm afraid the only alternative is a very difficult one - accepting the criticism and trying to improve.

:confused: It's clear who's opinions counted in the end. :D If there is to be more than one adjudicator then there should be three such that there is always a tie breaker.

yes, it usually is. not sure tie breaker is the answer though.
 

simonium

Member
maybe you could explain what has changed in the last 40 years.

Only very negligible things like sound, vibrato, ideas of style but none of these have any discernible impact on how phrases should be shaped.  A man whose head is in the past will usually compare the present unfavourably.
 
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MoominDave

Well-Known Member
I heard some lovely warm sounds in the 2nd section, I must say. To pick one, Deiniolen were not the strongest band on the day, as reflected in their result, but they did have a principal cornet player who produced some beautifully expressive playing with a gorgeous sound. And he wasn't the only such player, by any means. Certainly the acoustic mercilessly exposed any flaws of tone quality and intonation (and there were some for every band I heard - numbers 12-17 in the draw, a representative cross-section of the final results, some of which I found quite surprising), but equally all the bands I heard rose well to the challenge.

Seating position makes a significant difference to perception in a hall like that - I was sat three rows from the front, on the right-hand side of the middle block of seats, in order to get something close to the perspective of the adjudicators (closer seats were taken! Or fenced off).
 

bass2bone

New Member
After reading all that is written about Mr. Brian Buckley and some I feel rather unfair....So the percussionist won the soloist prize? At least he won it and it also shows that there are other instruments in a band.....

Now if a 3rd cornet had won such a prize atoned by another adjudicator would this cause such a fuss...YES/NO? What you are all missing here is that there are other instruments playing their parts and in some cases are offered a 'Solo Spot' and if the adjudicator selected that one solo from all the rest so be it...

It shows that the adjudicator has read and studied the score and 'maybe' highlighted certain sections to look out for to find that one special ray of sunshine apart from the corner-men/women that are sitting in the principles seats in today's bands.
 

bass2bone

New Member
Further to my previous post, how many of you said 'We played better than the winning band?'

You may have done so and a lot of people will agree with you, but how many made the piece musically right, feel right with tonal qualities, dynamic distinction and rhythmic clarity that only top section bands are known for?

Like all bands we aspire to be the best whether 1st or last and the 'Nationals' like any other contest is is all down to 'on the day'. Good or bad it is the man/woman in the box that says it differently.....They will have listened to 5 or 20 bands on a contest day for that section and came up with a winning band....

Just accept the result and strive forward for the next contest, you never know your band may win it and then you will get all the previously stated comments that have been posted in this thread all over again.
 

MoominDave

Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone's said that, and I think there's actually been very little griping in this thread about the result.

Congratulations on your win, by the way. Difficult contest to come on top at.
 

MoominDave

Well-Known Member
Incidentally, the person who misquoted me to Brian Buckley has not yet identified themselves. I must assume that they did it maliciously or are too frightened of the results of their error to admit to it.

Bless their little cotton head, whoever they are.
 

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