2009 British Open

pienbeans

New Member
Apart from the top few I see 4bars predictions were way out - said Whitburn should be in the top few, and came second last. Kirky were 'like being hit in the face with a wet haddock' but beat Hepworth, Rothwell etc. Missed playing in it this year but don't so much miss the feeling of confusion/bewilderment when the results come out! That's the 'beauty of banding' apparently! Still, half of the stuff on 4bars is drivel anyway. Sorry, did I say half? Maybe three quarters.
4bars rest didn't say Whitburn in top few .... dark horses! Having heard 15/18 bands today i agree with most of their comments. The only thing they didn't mention was that saltire should've been booking their Blackpool hotel half way through their performance! If Whitburn return to the grand shield after today david read's next gig should Blackpool in May ...... taking his pals for a walk along the beach ...... e aw! MBE = my big ego.

I think the majority of the audience who were present would probably agree with 4barsrest for a change. Shame you couldn't make it along. Maybe you could've waited for some audience feedback before posting your own drivel!

Well done to Cory ..... so musical & amazing dynamics. Stunning!
 

critic

Member
4bars rest didn't say Whitburn in top few .... dark horses! Having heard 15/18 bands today i agree with most of their comments. The only thing they didn't mention was that saltire should've been booking their Blackpool hotel half way through their performance! If Whitburn return to the grand shield after today david read's next gig should Blackpool in May ...... taking his pals for a walk along the beach ...... e aw! MBE = my big ego.

I think the majority of the audience who were present would probably agree with 4barsrest for a change. Shame you couldn't make it along. Maybe you could've waited for some audience feedback before posting your own drivel!

Well done to Cory ..... so musical & amazing dynamics. Stunning!
Why the attack on david read there were three in the box and they are more qualified than most so accsept the results it was a great contest
 

stephenmrry

Member
Just back from Symphony hall. What a day I was on the road from 4am travelling to birmingham from ireland and back on last flight out of Birimingham International but a day well spent. I saw 12/18 bands today so I cant comment on all the performances however 4br i think had it roughly called the way I did. Hammonds to there credit gave it a good attempt but it slowly but surely became a struggle. I hope this great band can bounce back and they will be back next year.

I thought Black Dyke were something else just fantastic as were Cory just breathtakingly good at times and wonderful solo work particularly from Cory Rep. Player (Name I cant remember its been a long day) who was superb. Great to see the return of the King who really pulled out all the stops. Felt they perhaps deserved a touch higher but no arguing with most of the placings in the top half.
 

PeterBale

Moderator
Staff member
Excellent day's music-making yesterday from all the bands. In the summing-up, David Read said they felt the top 7 bands were really outstanding, and that even the lowest bands should not be seen as playing particularly badly, and certainly not of being "bad bands".

No real quibbles over the results, although I felt Dyke had shaded it over Cory, and would probably have swapped Faireys and Grimethorpe around. Biggest surprise for me was Whitburn, who I felt played better than their given placing. Excellent work from sopronos throughout the day, and some subtle playing in the cornet/euph duets - thought Brisbane did well there.

I missed three bands I'm afraid: BTM, Rothwell and Co-op.
 

Anno Draconis

Well-Known Member
Enjoyed it immensely yesterday, and was impressed with how many bands managed to put on a proper performance of an astonishingly difficult piece - I was kind of expecting some of the "less fancied" bands to struggle, but no-one I heard had a real nightmare, although something odd happened at the end of GUS's performance? I had Cory, Dyke, B&R, Leyland, Fodens, Rothwell in that order; don't quite know why, but Grimethorpe's performance did nothing for me and Faireys and Rothwell can consider themselves unlucky IMO.

Being a proper BOC, I had my score in advance of the day and there were a couple of things I didn't understand - the direction in the preface of the score about where the soloists should stand said "at the front" but in the actual music, the solos are marked Lontano - distant. That, to me, would suggest that they need to be downstage but away from the band, but nobody I saw did it this way. And nearly every band I saw had the tam-tam roll continue through the last note, where the score clearly has it stopping, there's even a rest afterwards, before the final perc hit. The end result of course was that it was almost impossible to tell if the last chord was in tune because of the wall of sound coming from the back.

Some incredible playing though, with Cory, Dyke and B&R a class apart in my book. All three had real clarity so you could hear all the detail, especially in the Farandole where there's a lot going on, and they all got the Mahler trick of sounding a bit dark and unsettling, even in the lightweight stuff.

Anyone know what the potential "unsavoury incident" at the end was that 4BR refer to in their report?

4BR said:
Fine atmosphere

The fine atmosphere created was saved a potentially unsavoury incident at the end of the contest with admirable good grace and professionalism by Martin, who dealt with the disappointment of one conductor with the skills of a United Nations diplomat.
 

towse1972

Active Member
Does he have a point though? I must admit that I have witnessed some odd results during the last couple of years. I sometimes wonder if the placings after the top 6 or 7 are drawn from a hat.
That said, it must be a difficult task to place up to 20 odd bands accurately!

On another note. What training do adjudicators recieve? Are there examinations to pass?
 

critic

Member
Does he have a point though? I must admit that I have witnessed some odd results during the last couple of years. I sometimes wonder if the placings after the top 6 or 7 are drawn from a hat.
That said, it must be a difficult task to place up to 20 odd bands accurately!

On another note. What training do adjudicators recieve? Are there examinations to pass?
Contesting is a frustrating thing at the best of times but there are ways and means to voice a opinion, this was not clever although it bore out of frustration you have to hear all the bands
 

Dr Feelgood

New Member
The never ending discussion on brass banding results goes on. There's no perfect solution that will keep every one happy. I played yesterday in a band who's performance, I would admit, was disappointing and didn't reflect how it had gone in rehearsal, but that sometimes happens. Our result was better than I expected after coming off stage although we will still probably be in the Grand shield next year.

From a personal perspective I agree with some of the comments made by Steve Mead although we possibly benefited from the problems of recollection over a long day he highlighted.

The biggest change I would like to see is that after each performance the adjudicators review the performance just heard against the score in front of them, write their comments and give a score, out of 100, 200 whatever, and then hand their comments and score for that band over to the contest contoller. This would take away the need to recall whether band 18 was better than band 1 from 7 hours previously and only require them to measure band 18's performance against the score which is surely what we should be assessed on. It may lead to a tie if two bands get the same score but that may be the truth, how many times do you think or hear people say " coudn't split band 5 and 8" so a tie may be the true result.

Just my thoughts for what they are worth
 

Alyn James

Member
Three men in three separate boxes + no points + highest agg. position wins = no hiding place for incompetent judges.
Easy ( I know it's been tried before - tough)
What's the establishment afraid of?
 

RamasII

Member
5 people in the open, highest and lowest taken away then the 3 added together. the 5 should be pro musicians, players/conductors.
 

Alyn James

Member
While I'm here, congratulations to Cory for reaffirming that South Wales is the capital of brass banding in the UK. North Wales bands should be grateful that we invite them to travel for four hours every March to take part in our championships......;)
 

RamasII

Member
or....how about...aTrombone,Tuba,Perc,Trumpet,Horn player to follow each section and give marks on what they have played and then its all added up...maybe with a conductor looking at how well the score has been read and understood....hmmm....might be interesting..!
 

brianatb

Member
The never ending discussion on brass banding results goes on. There's no perfect solution that will keep every one happy. I played yesterday in a band who's performance, I would admit, was disappointing and didn't reflect how it had gone in rehearsal, but that sometimes happens. Our result was better than I expected after coming off stage although we will still probably be in the Grand shield next year.

From a personal perspective I agree with some of the comments made by Steve Mead although we possibly benefited from the problems of recollection over a long day he highlighted.

The biggest change I would like to see is that after each performance the adjudicators review the performance just heard against the score in front of them, write their comments and give a score, out of 100, 200 whatever, and then hand their comments and score for that band over to the contest contoller. This would take away the need to recall whether band 18 was better than band 1 from 7 hours previously and only require them to measure band 18's performance against the score which is surely what we should be assessed on. It may lead to a tie if two bands get the same score but that may be the truth, how many times do you think or hear people say " coudn't split band 5 and 8" so a tie may be the true result.

Just my thoughts for what they are worth
Best reply and solution I have heard to contesting.Well Done.:clap:
 
Heres a few possible ideas, take each with a pinch of salt :)

1. Get rid of adjudicators altogether, and replace them with the 4dJud1K4t0R, a computer that analyses every parts entry for pitch, duration, dynamics, tone, vibrato, articulation. Just to keep the old folks happy allow a human judge to award an extra 1% mark for 'musicality' in the event of a tie.
If the neighbours in the shed next door complain of too much noise then replace all the instruments with special breathalysers with 3 guitar hero-style buttons to represent the valves.

2. Ask the audience. As Derren Brown proved, the best judges are in the 'wisdom of crowds' so give everyone in the audience not playing in another band (including the hall stewards to make it up to 24) a keypad to rate each band.

3. Employ Simon Cowell and whoever theyre called on those strictly-x-factor-tap-dancing-on-ice shows etc to stop the band as soon someone plays a wrong note then elimanate all but 1 band to be the winner, then prevent any band from re-entering so the contest has completely different bands every year.

I think I hear the men in white coats coming... :)
 

BariPower

Member
Really enjoyed the open yesterday and like most I didnt see all the bands however I've never questioned this before but why is there a lack of younger adjudicators ?
And I never really took notice until now but most contests I go to David Reed is always in the box - does he have a domination in this area or is there no one else ?
I do realise there are other and slightly younger adjudicators out there but I haven't seen or heard of them enough to really have noticed!
 
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