2009 British Open

scotchgirl

Active Member
I don't think that it says anything for bandsmen when a thread where real change has been suggested..change that would only benefit the banding world....turns into a 'lets bash the messenger' thread instead.

Ultimately...regardless of where you finish in a contest, you should always be hopeful that it is a FAIR contest...and that all the bands are judged on the same criteria...regardless of whether you win, come 11th or come last.
 
We can all come to the conclusion that the current system doesn't always work and that change is needed, anybody adjudicating can get it wrong regardless of age or disablility. We are all only human and it is our nature to get things wrong. Instead of arguing the toss maybe we can come up with an idea to change the adjudication to create a better likelyhood of a fair result and write to ABBA, if we want change unfortunatly talking about it to the bitter end on TMP is unlikely to do anything, we need to take action and bring it to ABBA's door.

Like Mr Mead has done.
 

BottyBurp

Member
But it would appear that if you disagree with a result, it's 'sour grapes', or if you agree with SM, then you're a 'sycophant'... Fact is, he's raised his head above the parapet and those of us who want change (for the better) should support him, IMHO.
 

scotchgirl

Active Member
But it would appear that if you disagree with a result, it's 'sour grapes', or if you agree with SM, then you're a 'sycophant'... Fact is, he's raised his head above the parapet and those of us who want change (for the better) should support him, IMHO.
I often wonder why people can't see that there is a NEED for more clarity in adjudications. Some people seem more eager to use any criticism of the current way of doing things, as an excuse to air old and forgotten grievances, rather than coming up with their own ideas on change....shows poor debating skills and makes their arguments seem weak (in my opinion)
 

BottyBurp

Member
I often wonder why people can't see that there is a NEED for more clarity in adjudications. Some people seem more eager to use any criticism of the current way of doing things, as an excuse to air old and forgotten grievances, rather than coming up with their own ideas on change....shows poor debating skills and makes their arguments seem weak (in my opinion)
Some possible reasons:

  • Stupidity
  • Ignorance
  • Arrogance
  • Inability to see the bigger picture
  • Are happy with the status quo
IMHO
 

MoominDave

Well-Known Member
Nic,

Correct. A number of people in this thread, some of them eminent and experienced enough to know better, would be well advised to look up the definition of "ad hominem attack", and then reflect on whether their contributions have advanced or retarded the debate.
 

Alyn James

Member
So if South Wales is the hotbed of Uk banding, how come there were only 2 bands from the whole principality in Birmingham and also, why are South Walian bands scared to head North? We don't bite much now since cannibalism was banned in certain areas apart from Anglesey
Ya just bit....landed :)
 

SPMPP

New Member
And, indeed, he may not do any worse? Be a nice change to have some fresh blood...
Quote:
Originally Posted by centralbankofdad
Clearly you're an expert. Perhaps you should adjudicate in future.


I like to think that with my years of experience :biggrin: I am able to pick out a band that has performed the piece as written by the composer and then add my own preference to the musical performance given.

...and he may be a she ;) perhaps we need more women adjudicators. After all, isn't it the females who are better at multitasking?? Listen, follow a score and write comments ..........:rolleyes:
 

Nijinsky

New Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by centralbankofdad
Clearly you're an expert. Perhaps you should adjudicate in future.


I like to think that with my years of experience :biggrin: I am able to pick out a band that has performed the piece as written by the composer and then add my own preference to the musical performance given.

...and he may be a she ;) perhaps we need more women adjudicators. After all, isn't it the females who are better at multitasking?? Listen, follow a score and write comments ..........:rolleyes:

Well as long as you think that SPMPP... maybe others around you may not hold your good self in such high regard. Just out of interest, if you have different results than the adjudicators, who is right? The people chosen to adjudicate the top brass band contest in the country or someone sat at the back of the Symphony Hall with a study score and too much time on their hands?. I expect you will be sending your CV to the adjudicators panel asking for your inclusion;

Qualities: I am able to pick out a band that has performed the piece as written by the composer and then add my own preference to the musical performance given.

YOUR HIRED!
 

Humphrey

Member
We can all come to the conclusion that the current system doesn't always work and that change is needed, anybody adjudicating can get it wrong regardless of age or disablility. We are all only human and it is our nature to get things wrong. Instead of arguing the toss maybe we can come up with an idea to change the adjudication to create a better likelyhood of a fair result and write to ABBA, if we want change unfortunatly talking about it to the bitter end on TMP is unlikely to do anything, we need to take action and bring it to ABBA's door.

Like Mr Mead has done.
Has it actually occured to anyone that perhaps the adjudicators got it right?
 

scotchgirl

Active Member
I don't think people are questioning in this instance whether the adjudicator got it right or not....what they are doing is questioning the process of how they reached the results. This ISN'T clear in most contests...and needs addressing in my opinion. I still haven't heard one single adjudicator explain how they reach their results...especially when it comes to middle to lower placings....
 

Pav

Member
Surely they are questioning the result?

"with the greatest respect the results on the minor placings at today's British Open were nothing short of incompetent".
 

Ali

Member
Folks the more I read, the more I despair. People have a right to express their opinons rightly or wrongly. Adjudicators are there to give their opinons rightly or wrongly. We can disagree but who are we to say they are right or wrong! Its all about opinion. And we put our trust in the most experianced of members of our movement to do just that, just to go and slate them for giving us their opinons on what they thought. It must be very difficult to place 18 bands after a long days contesting. Give them some slack. And the thought of any pro musician coming in to do it! If they read some of the garbage that is spouted on here, they would just walk away without blinking an eye! Do you think Proff. D King or Dr N Childs would put up with this if someone didnt agree with a placing they gave them in a contest?
No!!!!!!

We always complan that the movement is on its a***. Well, the way I see it, its us, the common players that are taking it down. Not the people who run the contetst or our highly respected and most experianced judges. The amount of bile, jealousy and down right venomous poision that appears on sites such as this is the reason we are in downfall. Dont go blaming adjudicators. Dont go blaming the people at the top of the tree. Blame yourselves!!!!!! Instead of all the backbiting, jealousy and bitching that goes on within our beloved movement, hows about a little dignity? A little compassion and most of all a little love for the overriding thing that brings us together??? Otherwise we will have nothing left!!!!!!

Just my opinion.
 

DublinBass

Supporting Member
I think many participants would just like some transparency. A placing, as correct as it may be, can seem like quite a random result.

As mentioned either here or on other threads there are many ways to deal with this:
1) recorded comments
2) more detailed (and legible) written comments
3) some standard/criteria that a score is based on and an explanation of how that score was determined.

If you want to see an incredible amount of justification for a single score at the end of the day, check out the scoring from the World Drum Corps Finals http://www.dci.org/scores/recap/view.cfm?event_id=8b5aa924-08bf-42ac-8ffd-7db802b3e1c6
 
I keep seeing the odd reference to open adjudication in this thread. Its not about whether a judge knows who a band is or not, it is about allowing a judge to concentrate on what they hear only and not allowing their attention to be distracted by anything visual.

Regardless of what we say, there is NO ONE who sat in the open at Symphony Hall on Saturday and was not influenced, positively or negatively by what they saw on the stage, be it the conductor, colour of tunics, whatever. There are plenty of times and audience has seen as great show, but not heard one!

And what if they did sit in the open, and say Dyke won, there would still be a bunch of people saying "Ah, the judges listening with their eyes".......

I have never sat in a box and judged, but I am willing to bet that it is vastly different to sitting out in the open with the chance to remember performance via colour of tunic, remembering a particular soloist etc.
 

critic

Member
ll i can say is all my non brass band pals will laughing at us.
Why do we always shoot ourselves in the foot.
This is why the wider orchestral scene laugh at brass band contests.
If any more amunition is needed read this thread.:(
best thread of the lot
 

goldensound

New Member
brass bands are different. working class elements will always be present and i hope they will be. unfortunately, lower class elements ie. steven mead, continue to infect our love/hate relationship with brass bands. perhaps this mead character should realise this, afterall, the brass band world made him a so called 'star' even with a sound as thin as posh spice and as hard as charlie bronson! p.s. he could'nt even be bothered to wear a suit on stage at one of the most prestigious events in the brass band calender [says it all really!]
 

tubaloopy

Member
brass bands are different. Working class elements will always be present and i hope they will be. Unfortunately, lower class elements ie. Steven mead, continue to infect our love/hate relationship with brass bands. Perhaps this mead character should realise this, afterall, the brass band world made him a so called 'star' even with a sound as thin as posh spice and as hard as charlie bronson! P.s. He could'nt even be bothered to wear a suit on stage at one of the most prestigious events in the brass band calender [says it all really!]
pmsl
 
goldensound said:
once again a so called "top"name in banding has to cause controversy, and all because the person in question [and his band] were unable to cut it at the highest level of banding [again!]. surely this re-occurring pattern says it all, and childish comments [and disrepectful] should be focused in a more appropriate manner
unfortunately, lower class elements ie. steven mead, continue to infect our love/hate relationship with brass bands. perhaps this mead character should realise this, afterall, the brass band world made him a so called 'star' even with a sound as thin as posh spice and as hard as charlie bronson! p.s. he could'nt even be bothered to wear a suit on stage at one of the most prestigious events in the brass band calender [says it all really!]
I'm starting to get the impression, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you're not a huge fan of the man! :biggrin: Quality ranting :clap:
 
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