Warburton Mouthpiece

[mjwarman]

Hi guys,

I'm wondering if anyone out there has a Warburton 3SV mouthpiece top which you'd be interested in selling/swapping?

I need something a bit different for soprano playing as I am starting to get a little frustrated!! Currently using either a 3MC (would consider swapping this one) or 3MD with 9* standard and 9* BC backbores but neither are really doing me any favours.

PM me if anyone can help or feel free to make suggestions, but as people have said in the past and will probably say again, mouthpieces are very individual!!!

Thanks

 

[Tom-King]

What are you looking to get from the change?
What is frustrating you about the current two?

Are the problems things that practice would realistically remedy, or is change absolutely necessary?


Mouthpiece choices are a very personal choice, so experimentation is cool, especially when you can try different variables (cup depths/profiles independant of rim diameter/shape, backbores) like you can with warburton.
Whatever you're looking to improve, your cup depth is just one variable - have you tried your current ones with different backbores? have you tried narrower cups (most soprano mouthpieces tend to be narrower)?

For what it's worth, I'm using a 6D/11*. I feel I have more control (and richer tone) with this than with my 6M top.

 

[GJG]

You don't say what instrument it's to go with. My own experience with Warburton was that in general they didn't work well in combination with Schilke leadpipes; I use a Schilke 12B4 for soprano. But as you say, that's of no real relevance to your situation, especially if you aren't playing on a Schilke sop.

 

[Tom-King]

You don't say what instrument it's to go with. My own experience with Warburton was that in general they didn't work well in combination with Schilke leadpipes; I use a Schilke 12B4 for soprano. But as you say, that's of no real relevance to your situation, especially if you aren't playing on a Schilke sop.

Shouldn't be an issue with the Schilke sop - the S backbores (schilke picc) were designed specifically for the same leadpipe.

 

[mjwarman]

Oh, replies!! It's to be used in a yamaha xeno Eb.

I'd like to keep with the 3 series as I use these with good success in my cornet and trumpet. It's interesting that you mention using the 6D Tom-King. The only combination that I hadn't tried was the 3D (not 3MD as stated in the original post) in the longer 9* backbore. Just tried and it is promising!!

The issue I was having was effectively bottoming out, had the feeling that my lips were filling the mouthpiece and effectively cutting off the sound (air). This is something that practice can correct, and having a bad embouchure (completely self taught, so have many bad habits) doesn't help. I'm looking to source some lessons in the near future so hopefully that is something which will help. I realise that a 3SV probably wouldn't make much difference, but as you said, worth trying something a bit different especially as I am able.

Was after a short term fix as areas is looming and am loosing pride in the sound i'm making.

Thanks for the suggestions

 

[Tom-King]

Oh, replies!! It's to be used in a yamaha xeno Eb.

I'd like to keep with the 3 series as I use these with good success in my cornet and trumpet. It's interesting that you mention using the 6D Tom-King. The only combination that I hadn't tried was the 3D (not 3MD as stated in the original post) in the longer 9* backbore. Just tried and it is promising!!

The issue I was having was effectively bottoming out, had the feeling that my lips were filling the mouthpiece and effectively cutting off the sound (air). This is something that practice can correct, and having a bad embouchure (completely self taught, so have many bad habits) doesn't help. I'm looking to source some lessons in the near future so hopefully that is something which will help. I realise that a 3SV probably wouldn't make much difference, but as you said, worth trying something a bit different especially as I am able.

Was after a short term fix as areas is looming and am loosing pride in the sound i'm making.

Thanks for the suggestions

Shallower cups won't help with bottoming out issues, if anything they'll make it worse... and the sound you're making is likely to cut through even more prominently (good in some contexts but not really a brass band thing).
If the width works then that's great - obviously something isn't though, and it might be worth eliminating width as a variable? Could be worth trawling ebay sometime for a used 5 or 6D just to see whether you like it better with the sop - you'll find many professional trumpet players stick to one rim size religiously, except when playing picc - just a thought.

Xeno? Lovely instrument (I have one too).

Bad embouchure in what way? To some my embouchure is "bad" because it's slightly off the very center of the lips - it doesn't hold me back particularly, so I don't let it bother me.

Just out of curiosity, since we're on the topic of warburtons... have you tried their P.E.T.E? Looks very much like a gimmick, but with sensible use (overuse is bad) I find it really does help.

 

[mjwarman]

Bad embouchure in what way? To some my embouchure is "bad" because it's slightly off the very center of the lips - it doesn't hold me back particularly, so I don't let it bother me.

Just out of curiosity, since we're on the topic of warburtons... have you tried their P.E.T.E? Looks very much like a gimmick, but with sensible use (overuse is bad) I find it really does help.

I realise that on the bottoming out issue, will maybe try something a bit narrower instead.

I use too much pressure when playing, also, don't use enough top lip, which also don't help with the bottoming out issue!! I haven't used a P.E.T.E, but I do use a pencil for muscle strengthening which seems to have a good effect!

 

[Tom-King]

I realise that on the bottoming out issue, will maybe try something a bit narrower instead.

I use too much pressure when playing, also, don't use enough top lip, which also don't help with the bottoming out issue!! I haven't used a P.E.T.E, but I do use a pencil for muscle strengthening which seems to have a good effect!

It's just a thought, especially if you can borrow something to see if you like it first

A moderate amount of pressure may not be too big a deal - especially if your lips aren't too thin.

The pencil is a great little trick, but the other PETE exercise is worth doing too (the tug-of-war, you try to hold on with your lips whilst pulling it out gently with your fingers).

 

[GJG]

Shouldn't be an issue with the Schilke sop - the S backbores (schilke picc) were designed specifically for the same leadpipe.

Maybe so; haven't tried the S backbore. I've always experienced a distinct "kickback" feel with the articulation - difficult to describe exactly - when I've used any Warburton with any Schilke. Then again, I get the same thing with Bach 'pieces in Schilkes as well, and I know many people happily use Bach 'pieces on their Schilke sop, so it's almost certainly just me ... it's probably just being a bit conservative, but I always imagine one is likely to be better off using mouthpieces and instruments by the same maker.

 

[Tom-King]

Maybe so; haven't tried the S backbore. I've always experienced a distinct "kickback" feel with the articulation - difficult to describe exactly - when I've used any Warburton with any Schilke. Then again, I get the same thing with Bach 'pieces in Schilkes as well, and I know many people happily use Bach 'pieces on their Schilke sop, so it's almost certainly just me ... it's probably just being a bit conservative, but I always imagine one is likely to be better off using mouthpieces and instruments by the same maker.

Personally I'd think limiting yourself to the manufacturer that made the instrument is probably not a good idea - try them, but try others and see what works.

Which Warburtons (and Bachs) did you try? Could it simply be specific mouthpieces that you don't like, or have you tried them in other instruments and liked them?


On a personal level, I tend not to like Schilke mouthpieces (most of them have far too soft a bite and too round a rim for me). Their 10B4 works OK, but the backbore is a touch too tight for me.
They're not bad mouthpieces at all, just not quite for me.

 

[GJG]

Could it simply be specific mouthpieces that you don't like, or have you tried them in other instruments and liked them?

For example, I've happily used a Bach 1.5C in a Bach Strad Bb for years, but when I bought my Schilke B5 the 1.5C just didn't work. Same as I said before, creates a "kickback" effect. So I use a 16C4 in the B5; still use the 1.5C in the Strad.

As everyone says, just stick with what works ...

 

[Tom-King]

For example, I've happily used a Bach 1.5C in a Bach Strad Bb for years, but when I bought my Schilke B5 the 1.5C just didn't work. Same as I said before, creates a "kickback" effect. So I use a 16C4 in the B5; still use the 1.5C in the Strad.

As everyone says, just stick with what works ...

Ah, that could be the receiver gap - soprano is a bit different (since you don't have a gap).

No disagreements on using what works.

 

[WhatSharp?]

You don't say what instrument it's to go with. My own experience with Warburton was that in general they didn't work well in combination with Schilke leadpipes; I use a Schilke 12B4 for soprano. But as you say, that's of no real relevance to your situation, especially if you aren't playing on a Schilke sop.

Now thats really interesting as I've used a Warburton 4D with a 9* backbore with my Schilke for a number of years now and I'm have found it quite tight ( is the best expression I can think of ) in the upper register. I just put it down to bad breathing technique, next time we get some bartime together I'll have to pump you for some thoughts

to the OP:

WRT to the cup depth I've tried the "shallow" route and found whilst it is more supportive in the upper range the tone goes to pot and it sounds terrible when trying to blend for unison passages. In the end there is no substitute for good technique no matter the equipment. I have also discovered that a hard practice session usually kills me for the following day so I tend ( ssshhh keep this to yourselves ) to mix up my practices one day sop then Bb then trumpet/Picc/Flugel ( which is great for lower register practice ).

Just some thoughts from my own experience. I'm not an expert by a loooooooong way lol and there are far better qualified people on here who can advise.

 

[johnsop]

I am a big fan of the Warburton setup for my sop and picc playing. Been using various combinations for the last ten years, though had a brief spell on a Schilke 11Ax. I have found a medium cup (5MC) combined with a large backbore (11*) to be the best, for me. I get the openness of sound from the large backbore and the control, especially in the upper register, from the cup. I don't think shallow cups work, for me. The sound is too bright and I end up losing range (bottoming out).

Just to add another point, that others have eluded to, the key is good technique (especially in breathing) and a practice routine that is appropriate. Daily work on all areas of technique will lead to better playing, regardless of equipment.

Happy sopping,
John