themusicalrentboy
Active Member
oh yeah - although it's gone a bit quiet at the moment (hint, hint 
)
and the small matter of A levels.
)and the small matter of A levels.
Now Pennine have folded, who's next?
- Thread starter ericthered
- Start date
themusicalrentboy
Active Member
and so we are back to John's point. He's got into schools, he's got into the local community so NOT being a part of the band network becomes uncool.
leisa
Active Member
No, i disagree wholeheartedly. Your opinion, fairy snuff, but I definatly believe peer pressure is still a factor.
The Bass Boy
Member
So are you saying you’re not going to try because you fear your recruits will all fall to peer pressure?
were can I buy fairy snuff?
leisa
Active Member
no not at all, total respect for anyone who does it, if you read my posts carefully i have never actually said i wouldnt try because of that reason, just that it is a factor i think is near enough impossible to overcome hence why although these 20 or whatever new starters are a brilliant start, to sustain it you need to overcome factors such as peer pressure. 20 new starters are neither use nor orniment if they don't carry on playing!
Fairy snuff is availible through the allmightly S Brigade (I daren't mention the S word for fear that musical rent boy might go on his high horse again)
Fairy snuff is availible through the allmightly S Brigade (I daren't mention the S word for fear that musical rent boy might go on his high horse again
)
themusicalrentboy
Active Member
look at the evidence - John and his family (plus many more) have worked incredibly hard to get where they are in such a short space of time. They ARE in the community, there ARE enormous numbers of kids involved, and the 'uncool' ones are most likely the ones who don't get involved in some way.
John has a fantastic setup up there and he IS turning a lot of kids into banders and to my mind we should follow his example. The results are obvious.
John has a fantastic setup up there and he IS turning a lot of kids into banders and to my mind we should follow his example. The results are obvious.
leisa
Active Member
yeah hes done well but all im saying is that to sustain it peer pressure is a factor. Anyway I am repeating myself now and you know how i hate to do that. You aren't going to change my opinion on the matter, i know you're trying very hard to do so, so sorry
towse1972
Active Member
I have to agree with Leisa. I attended a school with many diverse musical groups. Hardly anyone carried on with music. When your mates are putting pressure on you to go out and miss band its hard to resist! It's just not cool to play in a band.
Mr. Musicalrentboy you are not the norm
Mr. Musicalrentboy you are not the norm
The Bass Boy
Member
Glad to see you made it with a few others at least, remember all we need to do is replace ourselves plus one and we double the movement. :clap:
sooze booze
Member
leisa
Active Member
Yet you still did, perhaps not as much a lost cause as you make out.
I don't think she was making out it is a lost cause, just that as has been said several times, we are unfortunatly a minority, obviously not everybody succumbes to peer pressure otherwise none of us would be here, but there are very few that don't!
sooze booze
Member
So take the Bass Boys point raise our collective game a few more will make it and were in clover.
The Bass Boy
Member
Whoa were all on the same side, lets work the problem from a solution perspective. My point is the difference between steady decline and steady increases over a 5 years period will be less than 5% if we generate more kids learning we will generate the same retention percentage, but because more are comming through our numbers will increase not decline.
As I said in a previous reply all we need to do is replace ourselves plus one and we double our number in 10 years that only 2 for everyone but 100% growth in 10 years.:woo
towse1972
Active Member
Yes, but only because daddy wouldn't buy me a girls world.Yet you still did, perhaps not as much a lost cause as you make out.
I dont think banding is a lost cause at all or recruiting new players either. I have played a large part in the success of youth bands many times. I was simply agreeing with Leisa, peer pressure does put paid to many youngsters stopping playing. I thought my post was quite clear.....
Too much booze sooze?
horn1
Member
When it comes to making music I think we have to accept that we are all exceptions to the norm. The vast majority of students that play an instrument give up once they leave school due to the lack of availiable enjoyable opportunities (I'm not just talking about brass players here). The key to getting kids to play and want to play is to get them when they are young, keen to please and malleable i.e. primary school, the earlier the better. I am head of music in a school where music had steadily declined for a number of years before I took up post. Everything I have tried to increase the uptake of instruments at school has failed (as it did at a previous similar school). Local bands with youth initiatives exsist in the area but still no players. the only way I will change this is by getting into primary schools. I started doing this last year with a group of year 5 students, It wasn't entirely successful mainly because I was off sick for 6 months last year but also because the kids were a bit too old. However at open evening last week one of the kids I taught came and found me and said hello, hopefully he'll be keen to take the cornet up again when he starts next september. I may be banging my head against a brick wall but I honestly believe this is the way forward. I didn't give into peer pressure at secondary school because by then I already knew that I was going to get a lot out of playing and didn't really care what people thought. It's a shame pennine has folded but hopefully the players they had left will fill gaps in other bands and stop those bands from potentially folding. Lets hope the school system gets its act together soon and it isn't just a few of us banging our heads against a brick wall trying to keep things going.
The Bass Boy
Member
You got it spot on.
grausue
Member
Don't know if this is any help to people, but one of the ways Banovallum Brass got into primary schools to promote the junior section and the music school was to convince the head teacher that a talk about brass instruments fits into the science curriculum. It probably helped that the head teacher grew up just down the road from Brighouse and Rastrick, though! I helped on several of these vists and we did things about length of tubing and harmonics etc. Then we let them play the bass and trombone - HOOKED.
They also put on little concerts during school time incorporating the children. Perhaps they even became "the cool kids"?
They also put on little concerts during school time incorporating the children. Perhaps they even became "the cool kids"?
Bass Trumpet
Active Member
Just chanced upon this thread and very sorry to learn that another band has fallen by the wayside. This is nothing new, as we have seen from the situation with Sellers last year. Perhaps if we look at the current climate, financially and educationally, we will come up with the answer.
Certainly, from my point of view, I've noticed a downturn in the standard of young players coming up through the ranks of youth bands and orchestras. In the early 1990's, the government allowed schools to have more control over their finances. No bad thing, but a number of schools decided to have more emphasis on Sciences/Sports etc., to the detriment of music and the arts. We are now seeing the fallout from that. Players who would not have been good enough to enter a music college in the 1990's are now welcomed with open arms. This then has a knock-on effect; the lower the acceptance standard at the Royal Academy of Music (for example) means that the slightly lesser colleges are then having to accept entrants of a lower standard still. This filters down to the Universities and in the end, there are no players good enough to study music.
It is then that no only our better bands suffer from a lack of suitable players, but it affects our amateur orchestras, wind bands, choirs too. Of course, the Black Dykes of this world will always attract the best players, as will top professional orchestras. However, there is a very noticable downturn in talent further down the line.
Perhaps Pennine Brass will emerge again. I hope so. Perhaps they might wish to continue as a non-contesting community band. Why not?
Certainly, from my point of view, I've noticed a downturn in the standard of young players coming up through the ranks of youth bands and orchestras. In the early 1990's, the government allowed schools to have more control over their finances. No bad thing, but a number of schools decided to have more emphasis on Sciences/Sports etc., to the detriment of music and the arts. We are now seeing the fallout from that. Players who would not have been good enough to enter a music college in the 1990's are now welcomed with open arms. This then has a knock-on effect; the lower the acceptance standard at the Royal Academy of Music (for example) means that the slightly lesser colleges are then having to accept entrants of a lower standard still. This filters down to the Universities and in the end, there are no players good enough to study music.
It is then that no only our better bands suffer from a lack of suitable players, but it affects our amateur orchestras, wind bands, choirs too. Of course, the Black Dykes of this world will always attract the best players, as will top professional orchestras. However, there is a very noticable downturn in talent further down the line.
Perhaps Pennine Brass will emerge again. I hope so. Perhaps they might wish to continue as a non-contesting community band. Why not?
centralbankofdad
Member
I agree with everything that Nicola said. I also have found it extremely difficult to establish more than a few traditional instrumentalists at my high school. Guitarists, drummers, singers and to an extent keyboard players are no problem as these are seen as cool.
I also believe that primary school is an important time to try to create some interest, however one of my major problems is that most primary school children have had free lessons. When the parents (or usually just mother in my experience) have to find the cash to pay for music service provision, different priorities conflict and the new year 7 child does not continue.
I also believe that primary school is an important time to try to create some interest, however one of my major problems is that most primary school children have had free lessons. When the parents (or usually just mother in my experience) have to find the cash to pay for music service provision, different priorities conflict and the new year 7 child does not continue.