Transfer the yorkshire area

[Humphrey]

I have lived in Yorkshire now for the past 16 years and I love all regions of this county. However (and I know this will annoy a lot of people), I find that the attitudes of many people from West Yorkshire can be unbearably smug! The idea that a competition has to be held in West Yorkshire because most of them come from there is indicative of that attitude. Perhaps it's time that someone did a study on the geographical demographics of the top 10 bands in the country (just out of interest). Let's take a band like Dyke and see just how many of the players are closer than 1 hours traveling time of Queensbury? Or see how many of Grimethorpe are based anywhere near the village itself?

I think you would find that the vast majority of players in these bands (and others) are prepared to travel considerable distances to play for a top outfit. I personally know players who are prepared to travel up to 3 hours each way! To suggest that a location should be central to a bands geographical position is to tell only half of the story.

Bradford Railway station is an interchange. Sheffield is a national hub. The governments new proposed high speed railway will pass through it and then move north easterly towards Manchester. Even now, Sheffield easily links with the Midlands and South of the country. It would be an easy task for people from these regions to get there, opening up the opportunity to see the Yorkshire bands competing. I don't think anybody was actually looking for a 'helipad'

winterman's post bleated about Mercurynews self interest; I think you need to look in a mirror! I'm happy to continue going to Bradford if that's where my band have to compete just as I'm happy to continue going to Birmingham to play in the British Open. I wonder what the geographical spread of the bands in relation to that location is? I'm sure there will be bandsmen who lament the demise of the free trade hall (hell, I know some who lament the demise of the circus that was Belle Vue) but could anybody honestly say that the Symphony Hall is NOT a better venue in terms of it's facilities and acoustic?

IMHO, at the end of the day we should be looking at this in terms of what's best for the bands in all respects not just a little extra traveling time ONE day a year. The extra traveling time is probably going to be less than many players take getting to every rehearsal. Bands may decide that Sheffield doesn't offer the best proposition but the proposal should at least be looked at. The Facebook group started not as a pressure group but as a means to discuss an interesting proposal. A rival group would be only a means to denigrate the proposals and worse, try to stop the proposal being aired at all which is why I assume winterman would be happy to join it.

If the statistics put forward on this thread are accurate, 40% of bands in this county make the journey to Bradford without complaint every year. Yorkshire people like to tell us they're stoic but taciturn folk. I think that's largely true but Yorkshire is the sum of it's parts and isn't as some would have us believe just West Yorkshire.

They have another saying in West Yorkshire: "Yorkshire man, born and bred, strong in arm and thick in 'ead". I couldn't have put it better myself.

[Thirteen Ball]

Originally Posted by Humphrey

Of course you will. Most of the criticism seems to be from "Location West Yorkshire"

Most of the support seems to be from south yorkshire.

Your point being?

[FATNBALD]

Originally Posted by tubafran

From the link on the Facebook page

Andrew Platts, Bass Trombonist with Stannington Band and Editor of the Mercury Newspaper, is one of many people unhappy with facilities at St. George’s Hall in Bradford – current home to the Yorkshire Brass Band Championship contest.

It is true that St. George’s Hall is a reasonably ok acoustic to play in. But its cramped conditions for players backstage and a distinct lack of other facilities – such as no bar or food catering provision – make it an unattractive proposition for bandpersons having to spend any length of time there. Add that public transport provision to the city is not very good, only making matters worse.
But Sheffield City Hall boasts fantastic facilities both within the building and across the nearby city-centre. It also has a history of of hosting major brass contests in the past, such as the mineworkers’ CISWO finals.

Im sure there are at least two bars at St Georges hall and in the down stairs one they were serving food, i had a very nice bacon & sausage sarnie £1.75, very reasonable.

[Squeaker]

Originally Posted by FATNBALD

Im sure there are at least two bars at St Georges hall and in the down stairs one they were serving food, i had a very nice bacon & sausage sarnie £1.75, very reasonable.

All well and good. But were you competing Sunday night, when the bar was packed, no seats available and food had stopped being served, and all the kiosks shut??

[Humphrey]

Originally Posted by Thirteen Ball

Most of the support seems to be from south yorkshire.

Your point being?

I think I made my point. It's an A R E A competition as in YORKSHIRE Area (?) Not a West Yorkshire Area competition. I think the proposal is worth considering because it's a good one. What are your reasons for NOT wanting to consider it Thirteen Ball??? Could it possibly be related to one of your posts in another thread... "well at least Grimethorpe didn't qualify"...? Try not to let the West/South divide colour your judgements too much.

[Squeaker]

Originally Posted by Humphrey

Could it possibly be related to one of your posts in another thread... "well at least Grimethorpe didn't qualify"...? Try not to let the West/South divide colour your judgements too much.

Here here. I find the Grimethorpe comment unbelievable coming from a bandsman about one of the best bands in the business. The trouble you have when change is suggested is that it's a bit like teaching your grandad how to use a mobile phone, not an easy task! (no need for a negative person to point out that they taught their grandad to use a mobile, just for the sake of an argument).

On the subject of negativity and change, I've seen a thread on Mouthpiece about bands receiving too much media attention, making it sound like a bad thing. Hang on a minute.... we complain that we don't receive enough support and cash. Last year before the Championship section results were announced, a gentleman spoke about his desire to secure more funding for Brass bands, and he near enough got a standing ovation!!
As a "younger" player in the banding world, it's often very frustrating to see the old fashioned negative attitudes that many have, especially when they think it's in some way helpful to our great movement to make nasty comments about other bands and band members.

[Thirteen Ball]

Originally Posted by Humphrey

I think I made my point. It's an A R E A competition as in YORKSHIRE Area (?) Not a West Yorkshire Area competition. I think the proposal is worth considering because it's a good one. What are your reasons for NOT wanting to consider it Thirteen Ball??? Could it possibly be related to one of your posts in another thread... "well at least Grimethorpe didn't qualify"...? Try not to let the West/South divide colour your judgements too much.

Erm... I don't remember posting that - nor does it sound like anything I would have said. Can you elaborate?

I would have been very pleased if Grimethorpe had qualified as I thought the performance was one of the better ones on the day, I have always liked the sound of the band, and I know Richard Carradus, Andy Lockett and Rob Westacott fairly well from their days at hepworth.

Please do not suggest I have any antipathy toward any band.

Edit - If ou refer to the yorkshire area thread - please see what I ACTUALLY posted!

Originally Posted by Thirteen Ball

One never knows what an adjudicator is looking for. I heard 8 bands of the top section.

I found it diffiult to separate Dyke and Gimey on the day, Dyke cleaner, Grimey a bit more musicall, but a few minor splits. I had Rothwell ahead of both of them, and I didn't hear Carlton main so can't comment there.

Brighouse is a tricky one. They took a lot of risks and made a lot of music. Some of it didn't come off, some of it did. Difficult to call. I thought the errors would cost them, and one or two of their team seemed to think the same, but the overall performance was very exciting and interesting, so credit is definitely due to them for taking the chances.

I suppose that's contesting. On another day, they could well have been 4-5 places lower, but they weren't. And the sound from their lower brass was simply unreal! Grezzy and Mike Norton has got to be pretty much your dream team on BBb Bass.

Either way it's a strong lineup from yorkshire going down to London this year, and the quality across the field was so high that it would always be the case that more than one band would play a blinder and be disappointed.

An honourable mention for Skelmanthorpe too. Very well played chaps. I didn't think a replication of last year's top 6 finish was off the cards by any means, and I was only wrong by 2 places. I hope my mates at Hepworth will forgive me for saying I had you above them....

I await your impending apology.....

[winterman]

Originally Posted by Mercurynews

Mic Tyler aka Winterman
nwSheffield has nothing to do with The Mercury Newspaper.

Ah fair enough, apologies for the crossed wires on that point..

[mclaugh]

Originally Posted by Humphrey

Of course you will. Most of the criticism seems to be from "Location West Yorkshire"

WOW! For someone who complained up-thread about people making derisory comments, all I can say is, "Pot, meet Kettle."

[Humphrey]

Originally Posted by mclaugh

WOW! For someone who complained up-thread about people making derisory comments, all I can say is, "Pot, meet Kettle."

Which part of that isn't true?

[winterman]

Originally Posted by Humphrey

I have lived in Yorkshire now for the past 16 years and I love all regions of this county. However (and I know this will annoy a lot of people), I find that the attitudes of many people from West Yorkshire can be unbearably smug!

Well thank god I'm not a true West Yorkshire man then

Originally Posted by Humphrey

Bradford Railway station is an interchange. Sheffield is a national hub. The governments new proposed high speed railway will pass through it and then move north easterly towards Manchester. Even now, Sheffield easily links with the Midlands and South of the country. It would be an easy task for people from these regions to get there, opening up the opportunity to see the Yorkshire bands competing. I don't think anybody was actually looking for a 'helipad'

The article stated that Bradford transports links were not very good.. I simply pointed out that they were in fact very good and that the article was inaccurate.

Originally Posted by Humphrey

winterman's post bleated about Mercurynews self interest; I think you need to look in a mirror! I'm happy to continue going to Bradford if that's where my band have to compete just as I'm happy to continue going to Birmingham to play in the British Open. I wonder what the geographical spread of the bands in relation to that location is? I'm sure there will be bandsmen who lament the demise of the free trade hall (hell, I know some who lament the demise of the circus that was Belle Vue) but could anybody honestly say that the Symphony Hall is NOT a better venue in terms of it's facilities and acoustic?

Oh Hump-hrey, how wrong can you be.. You do seem to be a bit of a troll sir (or in need of a good massage).. I didn't bleat (I'm only a quarter welsh ).. No real self interest here (as a non-driver it really wouldn't bother me too much as I can still enjoy the bar to my hearts content ), as I pointed out it would make more sense to move to Leeds or Wakefield as more central venues for ALL bands, rather than too yet another of the furthest boundaries of the region where you are making even more of your regions band travel greater distances, another suggestion into the debate is all..

Originally Posted by Humphrey

The Facebook group started not as a pressure group but as a means to discuss an interesting proposal. A rival group would be only a means to denigrate the proposals and worse, try to stop the proposal being aired at all which is why I assume winterman would be happy to join it.

And again, you so misunderstand me Humphrey and are a very assuming chap.. Far from wanting the idea quoshed I am all for open airing of ideas and views (as anyone who has had a drink with, or works with me, will attest too!), I stated I would rather join a group that wasn't, erm.. how shall I say, so militant in it's approach.. The way that group is described, and the article I mentioned in my post, which also seems to be the running theme of other articles posted on the idea is very much in the style of a protest or call to arms and not one of reasoned debate.. A more tactful approach may have acquired a more optimistic response..

Surely actually a 'rival' group airing the opinion that it would not be such a great idea to relocate to Sheffield would bring forth a balanced poll of FB members, compare the number of members voting each way? But then it would seem you are the one not wanting that opinion to be aired?

Originally Posted by Humphrey

They have another saying in West Yorkshire: "Yorkshire man, born and bred, strong in arm and thick in 'ead". I couldn't have put it better myself.

Not a born and bred Yorkshire man, not even born in this country mate (and Southern English origins from my parents), reasonably strong in arm and actually rather intelligent (so I am told)..

Congratulations on trashing any respect you had from True Yorkshire Folk!

[Thirteen Ball]

Originally Posted by Squeaker

I find the Grimethorpe comment unbelievable....

So do I...

Humphrey, evidence or apology please.

[british1]

This is supposed to be a serious debate, with an outcome that may benefit all concerned with brass bands. I keep logging on to this site in the hope of being stimulated in to a debate, but I'm afraid, it has had the opposite effect. It doesn't really matter If you are for or against this proposal or if bands have to tavel 5 or 10 minutes furher. What does it matter ? The idea was to see if what we have is good enough and if not, can it be made better. What you should all do now, is switch off your computers, go and watch some TV and never bother to return to this site. It's quite clear that some of you have problems and you would argue that black is white if it didn't suit you. Please switch off and do something else. Leave the serious debating to the adults. You really have made yourselves look a right set of plonkers

[a very flat b]

The debate has gone off track a bit...
The problem is that the choice being offered isn't really much of a choice in such a big region with 3 major cities - Leeds, Bradford, and Sheffield and several towns who could also claim to have great venues.
The starting point should be 'Do the Yorkshire region bands wish to continue to use St. Georges Hall? or should the powers that be seek an alternative?' If the answer to the first question is a majority no then the comittee could invite prospective alternative venues to submit bids.

Oh and to help with the South against west debate - pre 1973 you were all in the WEST RIDING!

[Humphrey]

Originally Posted by Thirteen Ball

So do I...

Humphrey, evidence or apology please.

Thirteen Ball. You are quite right. I made a mistake. It was a post adjacent to yours so I have NO difficulty in offering you a FULL and UNRESERVED apology!

I remember when I first came onto this forum. I was very passionate about Brass Bands but as the years have passed, I've become very jaded about the whole thing. I know that people are interested in what mouthpiece is the best and which mouthpiece so and so plays on but sometimes we forget what's really important ... music and friendship. I remember reading in another thread long ago that to play in a top band, you needed a thick skin and so I have. It doesn't bother me that people take issue with my posts personally or that they wish to continue those issues away from this forum, sometimes abusively but when I see decent, honest people being attacked for no good reason then my hackles do rise.

I've had debates on every topic and have enjoyed quite a lot of them. Some have been very unpleasant indeed. I have been privileged to have played with some of the finest bands in the country and I'm lucky that I'm still able to play at the highest level for a little while longer. When you're really passionate about something, you sometimes make mistakes as I did in this instance and I reiterate my sincerest apology. It has made me realise that I have nothing to offer this forum at all so I've chosen this post to be my last and I'll finally do the decent thing and kill off Humphrey forever. I don't think I liked him anymore anyway.

To all of my previous, respectful opponents, I thank you and to the rest of you I give thanks also. What I didn't learn about Brass Bands was more than made up for by my insights into the characters that frequent this forum. I wish you all the best of luck and extend that to whichever band you play for. Any talking from now on I'll do with my playing

My apologies once again Thirteen Ball

Ken Ferguson... Solo Eb Bass, Grimethorpe Colliery Band.