£1m for a brass band

[James Yelland]

Originally Posted by WoodenFlugel

...we need a national body to be both a central point of contact and to be knocking on doors for us.

Yes indeed.

Do we have a central body? Yes - sort of

But one to which not all bands and bandsmen/women are affiliated. The Federation only has a mandate to represent its members. It has no right to represent others and others have no right to expect it to do so.

Is this likely to change in the next few months while we still have the chance? Definitely not!

Or at least, not until bands and bandsmen/women show commitment, become members of the Federation and change things for themselves.

[WoodenFlugel]

Very good and valid points James, but there is a bit of 'chicken and egg' here. I find it increasingly hard to justify my band spending £100 a year on BFBB membership.

Not wanting this to turn into a what have the Romans done for us-type discussion I do recognise that since it became the BFBB, they have tidied up the registry, and have also written the CRB document that any band worth its salt should be using. Both useful and welcome, but worth 100 notes a year over - what is it - 10 years? And anything over and above that? Well I'm TBH struggling. Even the Parliamentary group that was announced to much fanfare last year seems to be a bit of a token effort, and the annual European antics in Preston have absolutely no benefit to my band what so ever. In fact it would seem from comments on here that even the invited bands don't really see the point of it.

So I guess that the non-member bands are probably thinking that the hundred quid would be better spent heating the bandroom or paying for their MD for a couple for rehearsals, or buying some music, and who could blame them?

The point I'm making is that the body - whoever it is - should be able to recognise that you can't discriminate against the non-members, but for the greater good it would be worthwhile to do anyway - otherwise there will be nothing to promote in a few years time.

[Anno Draconis]

Originally Posted by WoodenFlugel

Not wanting this to turn into a what have the Romans done for us-type discussion I do recognise that since it became the BFBB, they have tidied up the registry, and have also written the CRB document that any band worth its salt should be using. Both useful and welcome, but worth 100 notes a year over - what is it - 10 years? And anything over and above that? Well I'm TBH struggling. Even the Parlimentary group that was announced to much fanfare last year seems to be a bit of a token effort, and the annual European antics in Preston have absolutely no benefit to my band what so ever. In fact it would seem from comments on here that even the invited bands don't really see the point of it.

In fairness Ian, I believe they also organise the National Youth Brass Band Championships at the RNCM (and do a good job).

However I'd have to agree that the perceived "bang for your buck" isn't very high with the BFBB. Apart from when the Youth and English Nationals come round each year, what is it they actually do? And that Parliamentary group was just a joke. What was the point of that? The BFBB has to look as though it represents value for money and is doing something worthwhile for banding in general BEFORE they'll get any more members voluntarily dipping into hard-earned funds for £100 a year. Either that or they need to negotiate a deal with Kapitol that bands wishing to enter the Nationals have to be members of the BFBB, but I can't see that happening (or being popular)!

Example: Most years I go to the Open in Symphony Hall, with my score and tartan flask for some serious BOCing. Every year there's some sort of arts festival going on in the square outside and in Centenary Square. And yet, as far as I can see, never the twain shall meet. Nobody outside the hall has any idea that some of the country's finest (mostly) amateur musicians are performing 400 yards away inside the hall. There's a job for the BFBB, right there, with some Sue Perkins style profile-raising stunts. Never mind having a trade stand in the hall, BFBB - get yer ass out in the square, book one of the Grand Shield bands (or the National Youth Champions, or something) to play to the crowds outside, get a marquee with a quartet in, some cheapo student instruments with a big sign saying "Come and have a go if you think you're loud enough - loudest note of the day wins a set of band CDs!" and a load of leaflets with local bands phone numbers on them, pay a guy to drive round with a flatbed trailer with a band on the back, ANYTHING. I've thought of those in 5 minutes while I'm eating my lunch, with a few weeks planning and thought imagine what could be done to get bands into the consciousness of the public. No Floral Dance, though, please

[GJacko]

I think this thread is coming round to another discussion on which I raised similar points earlier. So, at the risk of being boring, here we go again.

If we, the Brass Band members of Great Britain, would like to raise the profile of our hobby, for whatever reason, we will have to pay for it. The Federation, the Regional Committee, the Associations, are (as far as I am aware), all voluntary organisations who organise events and represent the movement at large. If we want them to proactively market our hobby, then we will need to ask them and pay them.

All large charitable organisations support professional fund raisers who's job it is to raise the profile of their organisations, for the organisations good and charitable work. This can easily be accomplished with a commitment to funding these professionals. If, however, we prefer to become a professional organisation, promoting ourselves for the purpose of profitable venture, then this is another branch which could be explored. It has been with professional Orchestras, to great success. We have some of the worlds best.

However, my guess is, most of us just want to go to band and, as Ian said, it's our local town and communities where we should be seeking to gather our players. I am proud to say that most of our players come from the local community, with just a handful who travel more than five miles to rehearsal. And a growing training organisation. We are not unique by any means.

National (and probably International) TV, I don't believe will have any impact on our organisation. Nor will high profile CD releases. they might have a short term gain for the band(s) involved, but that's about it. I can buy last years CD's for £2 from tesco.

I think we forget, this is our hobby!

[James Yelland]

Originally Posted by Anno Draconis

.. the perceived "bang for your buck" isn't very high with the BFBB. Apart from when the Youth and English Nationals come round each year, what is it they actually do? The BFBB has to look as though it represents value for money and is doing something worthwhile for banding in general BEFORE they'll get any more members voluntarily dipping into hard-earned funds for £100 a year.

You put your finger on the problem. £100 per band per annum. That's £4 per bandsman per year, or less if you include the percussionists(!) It's peanuts. On that basis the BFBB, far from not demonstrating value for money, is working miracles. £4 might just pay the petrol for a 30 mile round trip to the bandroom and back on a single rehearsal night. It certainly won't pay for a couple of pints after that rehearsal.

Look at what other subscription based organisations charge. Almost without exception you will find subscriptions in double or triple figures. You get what you pay for. A reality check is long overdue.

[James Yelland]

Originally Posted by Anno Draconis

Most years I go to the Open in Symphony Hall, with my score and tartan flask for some serious BOCing. Every year there's some sort of arts festival going on in the square outside and in Centenary Square. And yet, as far as I can see, never the twain shall meet.

A possible obstacle to the twain meeting is that the people outside are enjoying a festival of arts, while the people inside are spectating at a sports event. That is what a contest is, isn't it??

[Anno Draconis]

Originally Posted by James Yelland

Look at what other subscription based organisations charge. Almost without exception you will find subscriptions in double or triple figures. You get what you pay for. A reality check is long overdue.

FWIW I agree - I'm one of those who thinks that band membership fees should more accurately reflect the running costs, and should therefore be around £10 a month per player, but I know I'm in a select minority - and the "reality check", despite being long overdue, isn't looking imminent. The fact remains that unless your band is/has a good youth band, or is invited to the English Nationals, the BFBB is all but invisible.

Originally Posted by James Yelland

A possible obstacle to the twain meeting is that the people outside are enjoying a festival of arts, while the people inside are spectating at a sports event. That is what a contest is, isn't it??

Red alert....can open......worms everywhere.......

I wasn't suggesting dragging people in off the streets to partake of the bandfest inside, which to the average non-banding music lover would be impossibly dreary and probably a bit bizarre. I was suggesting that the synchronicity of having virtually every major player (not in a musical sense) in UK banding in Birmingham on a Saturday afternoon at the same time as the city hosts an outdoor arts festival gives two opportunities - 1) to promote banding to the wider musical public and 2) to demonstrate to the banding great and good that said promotion is happening and would be a good thing to support.

[4thmandown]

Originally Posted by Anno Draconis

...Birmingham on a Saturday afternoon at the same time as the city hosts an outdoor arts festival...

Sadly, though they do put on the Artsfest to which you refer, Birmingham City Council is pretty passive when it comes to supporting or promoting brass music. The number of empty bandstands in the city throughout the summer bear further testament to the view that the council doesn't see a place for brass bands at all. I could be wrong, but I think that they don't see the cultural value of an important British musical tradition and are still a bit stuck in the politically correct mindset that came up with "Winterval".

In fairness I think that it's also because the bands themselves don't push themselves forward enough into getting involved too. Ask and ye shall receive, perhaps?

[TUBAWAY ARMY]

Originally Posted by Baton twirler

I was stood no more than a metre away from the flugelhorn player who was assaulted and nothing was said to spark the attack. The conversation was about having butterflies in your stomach when the results are being given and how your heart starts pounding as they give the 3rd and 2nd band results out, and when the results get to the band in 2nd place and the band you are playing for has not been mentioned you are either 1st or have blown it! I was sat at the side of the flugelhorn player in the hall and had the same conversation so I know nothing was said to provoke any reaction from anyone.
Not sure if the remark about anonimity is aimed at me, I am the conductor with Whitwell Brass and this has been mentioned many times before on this site, I am not trying to hide anything as I have nothing to hide.

Just where were the TV cameras for this then ? True reality TV and entertainment !!!!

[Bones]

Originally Posted by Anglo Music Press

Yes, this was done in 1945........

New Oxford Dictionary gives it as flugelhorn, but that just looks wrong to me and I prefer it as two words.

But NO-ONE (in all the European countries I've asked) has been able to explain where the name comes from. The German translates as 'wing-horn', but that doesn't really help!

Sorry to stray OT, but this has been bugging me for 30 years!!!

PS pedantry is a GOOD thing!

Off topic but

The name flugel horn may come from the German word meaning wing and the name may derive from the flugelman, the player who marched on the wing or flank of the front rank in German and Austrian bands.

[brassneck]

Ready for the next proggy? (introduced as Dinnington preparing for the "biggest" brass band competition!). On BBC2 at any moment!

[brassneck]

... an EEb Bass (no gig-bag) held on the backseat of a motorbike with bungee clips? This had better be stage-managed!

[a very flat b]

Originally Posted by brassneck

... an EEb Bass (no gig-bag) held on the backseat of a motorbike with bungee clips? This had better be stage-managed!

Whoo... I'm going to take the BBb to Darlington on Sunday on the back of the GSX600f

[Bones]

not sure about the uniforms, nor the Kasbian arrangement. But great to see Michelle and Toby play.... Cracking....

[David Mann]

They couldn't get whippets, so we had a shot of greyhounds.