View Poll Results: Should Non English Bands Be Invited To Compete?

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Thread: 2005 Masters Becomes International?!

  1. #1
    tMP Senior Friend NAS's Avatar
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    2005 Masters Becomes International?!

    Ok guys... what do you think then? Once again the debate has been opened as to whether 'The All England Masters' should be kept as a contest for 'All' English bands.

    http://www.4barsrest.com/news/detail.asp?id=2228

  2. #2
    tMP Posting Freak!!! DublinBass's Avatar
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    Perhaps they ought to change the contest name to the Half-England Masters. Even as an outsider, I definitely think they should keep it all England.

    I fear the Euros & World Championships will now go down by the wayside as eventually this will have the best 20 bands in Europe.
    Eb Bass
    Dublin Community Bands
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  3. #3
    tMP Prime Friend neiltwist's Avatar
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    for me, it's abit outdated to say english only! surely that's what the areas is for? (edit: and finals)

    personally, for me, the masters has been a revolutionary (ok, strong word!) contest. Long may innovation take place.
    bibo ergo sum

    "Most people leave their bodies to medical science, I'm leaving mine to Le Louvre!"

  4. #4
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    Nah keep it all english bud - you fellas have enough stuff to do besides that surely it's cool to use the all england title once a year. I think its great.

  5. #5
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    Interesting, isn't it, that they draw the line after the top 11 bands from this years Masters so that they can include Sellars? I wonder how bands will qualify for an invitation to future Masters competitions if they are not invited this year? Avelely & Newham and Redbridge had their best ever results this year, but are they really consistent? Also, I wonder if Dyke and Grimey will accept their invitations now?

  6. #6
    tMP Prime Friend johnflugel's Avatar
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    Personally speaking (not as a competing bandsman), I see what Phillip Biggs is trying to do. It was obvious this year that the standard has dropped (or maybe the piece just much harder) so increasing the number of quality bands will make it more audience friendly.

    The only thing I would query is how they have selected the competing English Bands. Taking the top 11 from one years contesting doesn't give an indication of the best bands in England. Perhaps done on the basis of averaging out three years form and/or taking into account Grand Shield, British Open, Areas would give a better representation. There will be bands (Leyland a very good example) who may feel shunned at the expense of some of the 'name' bands who have never previously supported the contest and a couple of others who have produced an excellent result this year but not in previous years.

  7. #7
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    Fantastic idea!

    Kenny - Whitburn Band

  8. #8
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    If I was in Leyland Band I would be extremely non-chuffed that bands that have never supported the contest in the past get an invitation before they do. Loyalty? Pah!

    A couple of other points:
    (i) Will the same bands be invited back the following year - what are the criteria for invitation and/or dropping out of the contest? Will it be at the whim of the organisers or will there be a more formal system put in place?
    (ii) For the non-English bands obtaining an invite - if the invitation is based on ranking positions, what will be the selection date for this, and what ranking system will be used (4BR, BBW)?

    On the whole, not sure if it's a good idea or not. I think clearer criteria for invitation to the contest need to be established (although I appreciate that maybe contradicts the concept of "by invitation").

    Les Wood
    Kirkintilloch Band

  9. #9
    Administrator Roger Thorne's Avatar
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    Excuse my ignorance here but how can you have an 'All England Masters' when nine of the bands are 'International'?

    "And this years winners of the 'All England Masters International Brass Band Championships' are . . . . . Brass Band Willebroek from Belgium :?

    It was only a couple of years ago that the English bands threw their teddies at the invitation of a Welsh Band. So I can hardly see them accepting this.
    The report states that the decision to change has taken place, yet its interesing to see the words 'possibly send' and 'hopefully send' used when refering to the 'European' bands. There's no guarantee that the English bands will accept Mr. Biggs let alone the European bands.

    Interesting times ahead.


  10. #10
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    Loyalty is a two-way thing. Perhaps if Leyland hadn't pulled out of this year's contest at the last minute they would have been invited to next year's.

    Defending champions pulling out - poor show. Could you imagine how serious a situation it would have needed to be for Dyke to have have pulled out of the National in 1960? Half of the band would have needed to die first.

    Lalo

  11. #11
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    It's the All English Masters - keep it English. We now have a Scottish open and they can have a Welsh open as well.
    When some one sets up a contest with particular rules and regulations why do we always want to change things. As I recall this contest was originally set up to allow the invited bands a lot of flexibility re choosing pieces and adjudicators etc. etc. Let them get on with it.

  12. #12
    tMP Prime Friend nickjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1
    It's the All English Masters - keep it English. We now have a Scottish open and they can have a Welsh open as well.
    When some one sets up a contest with particular rules and regulations why do we always want to change things. As I recall this contest was originally set up to allow the invited bands a lot of flexibility re choosing pieces and adjudicators etc. etc. Let them get on with it.
    there was a welsh masters , called the welsh brewers challenge...but it didnt work , north wales bands didnt get an invite , and not many bands entered
    Nick Jones
    "looks like your village is missing it's idiot"

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1
    It's the All English Masters - keep it English. We now have a Scottish open and they can have a Welsh open as well.
    When some one sets up a contest with particular rules and regulations why do we always want to change things. As I recall this contest was originally set up to allow the invited bands a lot of flexibility re choosing pieces and adjudicators etc. etc. Let them get on with it.

    .................and I do believe there were English and Welsh bands in the Scottish Open.

    Lalo

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by The King of Wise
    Loyalty is a two-way thing. Perhaps if Leyland hadn't pulled out of this year's contest at the last minute they would have been invited to next year's.

    Defending champions pulling out - poor show. Could you imagine how serious a situation it would have needed to be for Dyke to have have pulled out of the National in 1960? Half of the band would have needed to die first.

    Lalo
    Don't talk ****e! Dyke and Grimey get invites every year, turn them down, and will still be invited. Faireys also didn't attend this year and will be getting an invite. We were unable to attend due to circumstances beyond our control. Comparing to bands in the 60s is not an option... the world has changed. Get out of the Brassed Off mentallity that contests are the be all and end all.
    Chris Doran
    Leyland Band

  15. #15
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    ... geeeesh... so much for the ALL England Masters...

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