Butlins 2013

[Andy_Euph]

I've just about recovered from the weekend in Skeggy, it was pretty cold. Had a great weekend away, thought my band played well and we enjoyed our performance. Although that's the first time ever I think I've been to a lower section contest and never seen any notes regarding, tuning, note production, balance etc in the remarks.

I heard quite a few bands over the weekend and must say that Whitworth in the 2nd section were fantastic, the conductor's reading was so good, it was like being transported back to the 1860's! Also thought Eccles played very well in the 3rd section, and deserved at least their 3rd place. In the results though I was getting a bit confused as I thought they were reading out last years! 3 sections had the same winners 2 years in a row, don't think I'll ever see that again.

Can I also just thank the timp player from Thurcroft band for staying on stage to help us out, after two of our players had to turn back on the day of the contest due to the weather.

[tat]

Whitworth in the 2nd section were fantastic, the conductor's reading was so good, it was like being transported back to the 1860's!

Thanks Andy, I wonder if Mr Buxton thought so?

[Will the Sec]

My first expereinces of Episodes rather put me in mind of my first experiences with Harrison's Dream.

First hearing (HD, live at Butlins, E via YouTube) "What on earth is going on? Where is the aesthetic value*?"

Discussion: HD: (having exited after one rendition, I chatted with Low Brass Elvis) "Have you read the programme notes?" "No." "Well, have a read and then listen a few more times. You may enjoy it more." E: "Discussion" on tMP. Read the programme notes provided by Matt.

Subsequent hearings: OK, after reading the progamme notes for HD, the more performances i listened to, I found that I understood more what it was about, looked forward to how the bands would reproduce certain passages including the chimes effects, the snippets of Tallis, and enjoyed seeing old pals play well in Redbridge's performance. E: Well, I can pick out some of the elements depicted and I can see from the the way the band played it was committed to the piece.

Entertaining?

With a set work, you can listen to a piece several times if you are minded to, and can be entertained more by a lesser performance off number 18 because you know what is coming than a stellar performance off number one when you don't. Or, you could buy a study score if it it available, go online and find a you tube version, and do some prep. The performance by band number 18 should not win though, as the adjudicator ought to have done his or her homework.

With an entertainments contest, though, there is no prep for the audience as the programme should be unknown to the adjudicators**. In addition, with such a new piece where it is possible no adjudicator will have ever heard it, let alone seen the score ahead of submission before the performance, no pre knowledge will exist. The entertainment aspect therefore must come from the immediate impact of the piece, not a reaction that can be gleaned after several repetitions (as for a set piece) or after review later on youtube with the benefits of programme notes.

How does this tie in with David Read's want for innovation? I don't know***. It would be interesting to hear his views on the topic, as it would be interesting to hear the organisor's remit for the adjudicators as to what constitutes as entertaining. The Noddy's definition of entertaining is very narrow. Entertainment is slightly different, and entertain slightly different again.

YVMV.

*As distinct from the technical ability to reproduce the highly complex dots, a skill somewhat beyond me.
**I note that a list of pieces was sent to the organisors for Butlins, but I do not know if it was passed on to the adjudicators. Would seem silly if it was.
***I have a view, but as it appears there is a lack of understanding on tMP in adverts and press releases as to exactly what innovation is, I won't waste my breath.

[Bayerd]

Ok, I think it's time for me to chip in...

Out of curiosity, what did people think of the Wingates entertainment programme? Surely the most 'interesting' performance of the weekend?

I thought it was an amazingly adventurous choice and very well put together, and therefore deserved a heck of a lot more than it got.

From our point of view, being adventurous and making a statement was higher up the list than finishing a couple of places higher.

As an original work for brass band, I love it! As a potential Entertainment contest winner, I think not. Phil Harper may well have liked it enough but you can see from the responses here and from comments I heard from people who did hear it, that expecting to win with it

Out of interest, is the choreography detailed on the score or was the put in just for this contest?

Well played though Wingates and if nothing else, you've introduced me to a stunning work.

Given where we are as a band at the moment, winning was highly unlikely regardless of what we played, so we took the decision to make a point instead. Much of the choreography in our performance is asked for, with the exception of the marching and saluting.

I'm no longer associated with the band, although I've many friends there, so this is solely my opinion, but:

I think the band's main aim with this piece was to create a stir, and get people talking. I'm pretty sure they knew that some people were going to loath it and some were going to think it was great, and they were hoping that their gamble in performing it would have been one of the hottest topics of post-contest discussion, even if they didn't trouble the prizes.

I don't think they picked it thinking it was a sure fire entertainments winner. I'm pretty sure that's not how Andy Berryman's mind works! I also think that they're aware that competing directly with the likes of GUS and Desford on a more traditional programme would have been a very tall order, so they took a punt on a completely left-field idea. I can't tell you how much I admire that. They didn't get the result they wanted.
I think you'll see Wingates doing more of this kind of stuff over the next few years.

I got the result I wanted

and yes you're right, we will do more new and innovative music in the near future (which must be handy for budding composers to note as we'll showcase anything good whether it's familiar or not).

I also really enjoyed Wingates performance, hats off to Paul McGhee for an excellent composotion and well executed by the band. I said at the time that it would be one of those Marmite performances that people either loved or hated, and I loved it!

I said that it would be either a breath of fresh air or a f@rt in a space suit and to be honest I wasn't bothered which.

[QUOTE=wittig;830605]

The paying brass band audience is getting older, in 20 years time (or less!) it will be mostly gone. If a little effort is put in now to try and change perceptions there might still be an audience left to play to by the time I'm 50.

This is certainly a problem we recognise, hence trying something different. Our message isn't one of 'this is the way forward', more stop rerunning Granada Band of the Year 1978.

If bands don't work harder at entertaining audiences, there'll be nothing left in 20 years' time.

I beg to differ. What we didn't really get (because of the contest rules) was to present the work as we would have done in a concert. We would normally explain the piece in more detail.

When we've done this with In Pitch Black, it has been very well received and I'm sure we'll get a good reaction to Episodes when we continue to perform it.

If you were to play Episodes in Albert Halls, or some other local venue, during one of your "normal" Concerts, there wont be as many in for the next one.

I guess we'll find out the answer to this as this year progresses...

Well I liked it. I wouldn't call it a "masterpiece", as one poster wrote (and then deleted, I notice), but it is bouncy, fun, and outward-looking, with that great sense of energy which can be a real musical advantage of the brass band if properly harnessed. I'd like to see us use more music like this, and a band that plays this kind of stuff I would find attractive to play for.

It's a great piece to perform, and Dave, move closer, there's job sharing to be done

The objective of the contest is to get the best result possible!

Kind of, if you're in the position of not likely to be in the prizes, you might as well make a different kind of statement.

On reflection, result aside I think that Wingates achieved its objective. From my point of view, I think that more bands need to think a bit more about where they're heading. At this point in time even the household names of banding don't pull in audiences like they once did. Something needs to change, trotting out the same old same old aim't going to work for much longer. I'm not saying Wingates have the answer (far from it) but at least we're asking the question...

[sbandsman]

On reflection, result aside I think that Wingates achieved its objective. From my point of view, I think that more bands need to think a bit more about where they're heading. At this point in time even the household names of banding don't pull in audiences like they once did. Something needs to change, trotting out the same old same old aim't going to work for much longer. I'm not saying Wingates have the answer (far from it) but at least we're asking the question...

Well said Bayerd

[Bass Man]

Thank heavens nobody did Gangnam Style.....

Funnily enough, in a conversation we had on the Friday evening Ste69 we would have bet money on there being a Gangnam element to someone's program on the Sunday