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Thread: Grimethorpe Announcement

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJG View Post
    Would you put forward the same argument for professional caterers? Security staff? Maintenance staff?

    Do you think that Underground railway staff and bus drivers should work for free to get people to the games, just for the prestige?

    Why do people in the brass band world have such a problem with professional musicians being paid to do their job ... ?
    where's that like button again?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJG View Post
    Would you put forward the same argument for professional caterers? Security staff? Maintenance staff?

    Do you think that Underground railway staff and bus drivers should work for free to get people to the games, just for the prestige?

    Why do people in the brass band world have such a problem with professional musicians being paid to do their job ... ?
    If they could find security, caterers and transport workers that would do it for free then yes, you're right. However, as we both know they couldn't. People don't do those roles as a hobby primarily.......unlike musicians where the vast majority will do it for free, happily.

    So yes, they do need to compete. If they want paying also then I would expect a vastly superior product to the offered by an amateur. The general public would not notice this difference in quality, so why should they pay?

    As I mentioned previously, there are occasions when a proffesional is needed. This certainly isn't one of them

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatcontroler View Post
    As I mentioned previously, there are occasions when a proffesional is needed. This certainly isn't one of them
    If an event with the massive global profile of an Olympics opening ceremony is not an occasion when a professional musician is "needed", then what does come into that category?

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morghoven View Post
    If an event with the massive global profile of an Olympics opening ceremony is not an occasion when a professional musician is "needed", then what does come into that category?
    Did you bother to read my posts on the subject? In particular the part in which I mention the general public not being able to tell the difference between a professional and an amateur musician? Add to this the vast amount of amateur musicians that will perform for free and this will surely help you to overcome the confused face you have.
    Last edited by fatcontroler; 14.07.2012 at 18:35. Reason: splelling

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatcontroler View Post
    Did you bother to read my posts on the subject? In particular the part in which I mention the general public not being able to tell the difference between a professional and an amateur musician? Add to this the vast amount of amateur musicians that will perform for free and this will surely help you to overcome the confused face you have.
    Yes I certainly did read your posts. And everyone else's.

    I'll ask a slightly different question therefore, which is this: if all that matters is "the general public not being able to tell the difference between a professional and an amateur musician", do you think there should be professional musicians at all?

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morghoven View Post
    Yes I certainly did read your posts. And everyone else's.

    I'll ask a slightly different question therefore, which is this: if all that matters is "the general public not being able to tell the difference between a professional and an amateur musician", do you think there should be professional musicians at all?
    Good question. Some events require a lot of commitment that an amateur couldn't do, such as pit gigs etc. Amateurs couldn't give time up forthese.
    I don't have any issue with professional players, indeed I know a few myself and wish them well. The olympics however do not require such commitment so it is possible for amateurs to do it.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatcontroler View Post
    Good question. Some events require a lot of commitment that an amateur couldn't do, such as pit gigs etc. Amateurs couldn't give time up forthese.
    I don't have any issue with professional players, indeed I know a few myself and wish them well. The olympics however do not require such commitment so it is possible for amateurs to do it.
    Okay...so if it's only a matter of time commitment to performances (as you rightly point out, many theatre-type jobs could not be done on a hobby basis), what about a professional orchestra for example? The various National Youth ensembles are doing several BBC Proms concerts between them this summer and they're obviously amateurs - so should the other orchestras get paid for playing their concerts?

  8. #68
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    I can't believe that you reckon the public can't tell the difference between professional and amateur musicians.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by centralbankofdad View Post
    I can't believe that you reckon the public can't tell the difference between professional and amateur musicians.
    How many will be watching the opening ceremony I wonder? I'm sure a few of them will know a thing or two about artistic performance.
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  10. #70
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    A band like Grimethorpe ARE professional players! They have played on Film, T.V. Top Venues and to C.D standard LIVE. They just happen not to all get a wage. The band gets paid for every gig and rightfully so. The M.U's previously mentioned grumble (if they have one) is either because they can’t accept the fact that un-paid players can play as well as paid players or because said un-paid player are not part of their little club.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by toby hobson View Post
    A band like Grimethorpe ARE professional players! They have played on Film, T.V. Top Venues and to C.D standard LIVE. They just happen not to all get a wage. The band gets paid for every gig and rightfully so. The M.U's previously mentioned grumble (if they have one) is either because they can’t accept the fact that un-paid players can play as well as paid players or because said un-paid player are not part of their little club.
    The M.U.'s grumble is about the fact that professional acts have been contacted to render their services for free.
    It's not how you play ... it's the way how you play it!

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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by toby hobson View Post
    The M.U's previously mentioned grumble (if they have one) is either because they can’t accept the fact that un-paid players can play as well as paid players or because said un-paid player are not part of their little club.
    rubbish - they like all other trade unions simply want to see that their members, who do this for a living, get properly remunerated for their efforts. Considering the support this movement has given to unions over the years, it's a bit rich having a go at the MU!

  13. #73
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    Musicians should get their usual rate for the gigs they do. Pro = pro rate. Amateur = amateur rate. Simple.

    The treatment of musicians is especially frustrating as some - bus drivers and tube drivers are not just getting paid their usual rate but are being given bonuses for agreeing to not strike during the Olympics.
    On my gravestone the epitaph will read: I'd rather be here than Old Trafford

  14. #74
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    this thread just seems to be full of so called "professional players throwing they're toys out of the pram. Theres enough people making money out of this debarcle we call London 2012 without brass players deciding they want a bit too

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by brassneck View Post
    How many will be watching the opening ceremony I wonder? I'm sure a few of them will know a thing or two about artistic performance.
    IM sure there will be. I'm also positive that there will also be millions of people
    Who don't and have no intrest. Whilst it's great for the movement and Grimey in particular to be taking part in this, don't forget that at the end of the day, mr bloggs from the ivory coast, or mrs bloggs from Slovakia won't give two hoots!!!! They most probably won't have a clue who they are. And although they are taking part,
    If it was anything like the commonwealth games, it would
    Only last maybe 3-5 minutes of the while ceremony.
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