Grimethorpe Announcement

[brassneck]

I suppose it's the principal that may get carried over to other public events regarding the use & payment of musicians in the future.

Do'h! I am cursed lol! I did, of course, mean to type "principle" (not "principal"). As Rob has said above, this has the potential of setting trends in the future & will undermine the work the Musician's Union has been trying to establish/maintain for it's members and career orientated musicians.

[DRW]

Do you make a living from playing music though? Not paying musicians to perform at this is an extremely dangerous precedent, and especially shocking given the levels of excess expenditure and salaries at LOCOG.....

I don't make a living from music nor do I think that this is creating a precedent. The existing precedent is more likely what is driving LOCOG's attitude.

I agree that it is unfair and wrong for LOCOG to expect unpaid performers whilst paying for most (every?) other recruited person. I also feel for professional musicians who are understandably frustrated and angry with this situation. However, whilst there are good amateur musicians willing to play for free, this situation will always exist. There is no conceivable solution.

[James Yelland]

Not paying musicians to perform at this is an extremely dangerous precedent.....

It's hardly a precedent. I can remember the MU getting very irate about the use of amateur bandsmen playing the offstage parts for a performance of Belshazzar's Feast, I think at the Proms, because it deprived pro musicians of income. And that was in either the 1970s or 1980s. If I remember rightly, the MU got their way.

[brassneck]

It's hardly a precedent. I can remember the MU getting very irate about the use of amateur bandsmen playing the offstage parts for a performance of Belshazzar's Feast, I think at the Proms, because it deprived pro musicians of income. And that was in either the 1970s or 1980s. If I remember rightly, the MU got their way.

This is about professional musicians being asked to play for free. Perhaps Grimey have accepted to travel and play for no fee as an amateur band?

[James Yelland]

This is about professional musicians being asked to play for free. Perhaps Grimey have accepted to travel and play for no fee as an amateur band?

Well yes, fair point. Although, in fact, the thread is supposed to be about a pending announcement by the band - which may or may not be about the Olympics, as many here are suggesting. If they're right, the band have left it a bit late!

[GJG]

Seems ironic that LOCOG are trying to get people to play for free, yet appear happy to pay the LSO to not play ...

[fatcontroler]

Surely the fact that the organisers could very easily get amateur musicians to play for free, and the general public not noticing a difference, is an indication that professional musicians do not deserve to be paid for the event.

Sure, there are occasions when only a professional musician could play - not everyone could take time out of their main work to play in china for example......but whilst people have a choice of very good free musicians or very very good paid musicians then they will choose the free ones everytime. The paid ones do have to compete and in this instance performing for free gives the prestige that they wouldnt get otherwise.

[GJG]

Would you put forward the same argument for professional caterers? Security staff? Maintenance staff?

Do you think that Underground railway staff and bus drivers should work for free to get people to the games, just for the prestige?

Why do people in the brass band world have such a problem with professional musicians being paid to do their job ... ?

[tkhbss]

Would you put forward the same argument for professional caterers? Security staff? Maintenance staff?

Do you think that Underground railway staff and bus drivers should work for free to get people to the games, just for the prestige?

Why do people in the brass band world have such a problem with professional musicians being paid to do their job ... ?

I think the objection is not about professionals being paid, it is that the MU would object to music being provided by an amateur organisation which would thereby take away an opportunity for a professional to be paid for the same event.

[GJG]

I think the objection is not about professionals being paid, it is that the MU would object to music being provided by an amateur organisation which would thereby take away an opportunity for a professional to be paid for the same event.

That's not the way I read fatcontroler's last sentence:

... The paid ones do have to compete and in this instance performing for free gives the prestige that they wouldnt get otherwise.

[Ali]

I think the objection is not about professionals being paid, it is that the MU would object to music being provided by an amateur organisation which would thereby take away an opportunity for a professional to be paid for the same event.

I don't get the issue. When I played at the closing ceremony of the Commenwealth games, nobody got paid (or maybe David king did, I dont know)!!!! There were over 3500 bandsmen and women there and they all did it for one reason! Pride!!! Nobody will ever take the experience away from me, nor will they take away the replica silver medal each of us got for participating. Sometimes, it not about the money whatsoever!!! Its about being proud to be a part of something that will never happen again in your lifetime.

[Morghoven]

I think the objection is not about professionals being paid, it is that the MU would object to music being provided by an amateur organisation which would thereby take away an opportunity for a professional to be paid for the same event.

Actually, I think the MU's objections are about professionals being paid (or not as the case may be). I haven't seen any statement from them regarding their position on using amateur musicians...though I wait, as ever, to be corrected! The original issue that came up was that undertakings had been given via various trades unions that all professionals involved in the Games would be paid - but then it transpired that some (including musicians) were being expected to operate for free.

The "problem" that we all as musicians have is that there are plenty of amateurs, both individuals and ensembles, who are just as good as professionals. There aren't many other lines of work where that would be possible.

[brassneck]

Grimethorpe were mentioned in the Telegraph today ... and possibly not "by chance" in a descriptive sense. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/oly...-ceremony.html

[Bayerd]

I thought it was already common knowledge that Grimey were playing at the opening ceremony. Perhaps not...

[Pauli Walnuts]

If they need a dep I only live about 10 minutes away

10 minutes normally, 3 hours during the Olympics!