Whit Friday Results 2012

[Accidental]

Sometimes it's hard to think that the whits results come down to anything other than splits and bad playing. We came in the bottom 10 in nearly every venue this year and there was hardly a bar in any of our performances which did not contain splits, bad ensemble or intonation problems.

So the implied flipside is that the performances that contained good playing, good ensemble, good intonation and very few splits were rewarded by good results...

I honestly think anyone who has a problem with that is in the wrong game!

[hobgoblin]

So the implied flipside is that the performances that contained good playing, good ensemble, good intonation and very few splits were rewarded by good results... I honestly think anyone who has a problem with that is in the wrong game!

If you (and it seems a few others on here) want to live in some sort of medieval, meritocracy based banding movement then good for you , but plenty like me don't. This whole fiasco highlights the need for open adjudication - if Mr Lyons and his colleagues at other venues could have seen the kids in our band - still in tears after the rollicking the MD gave them on the bus, and the elderley horn player staggering and gasping for life in the ff passages I'm sure we would have come a bit higher. As it is we have closed adjudication like the 1800's with the criteria weighted firmly in the favour of our "best" bands - all based upon a first passed the post system of playing well. The time has come for open criteria based judging, and perhaps a Gold / silver/ bronze system as used in Youth band contesting. My tongue in cheek attempt to bribe an adjudicator was rightly instantly dismissed, but is it really so different from filling the seats in your band with great players and then lording it over everyone else on Whit Friday?

[Accidental]

I don't want to live in a medieval meritocracy, I want to continue to enter brass band competitions where the best performances are (usually!) rewarded with the best results and the rest of us can keep striving to do better next time. Lets not kid ourselves here, brass band competitions are as much about sport as 'art', and if the criteria WEREN'T weighted in favour of the best bands and best playing, then I wouldn't waste my time taking part.

I'm sorry Hobgoblin's band had kids in tears and an eldery player struggling with ff passages, but I very muych doubt they were the only ones, and I would be more sorry if they beat other better bands because of some sort of sympathy vote criteria. Quite apart from being totally unfair, who's to judge which bands issues and efforts are more deserving than anyone else's?!

[The Godfather]

If you (and it seems a few others on here) want to live in some sort of medieval, meritocracy based banding movement then good for you , but plenty like me don't. This whole fiasco highlights the need for open adjudication - if Mr Lyons and his colleagues at other venues could have seen the kids in our band - still in tears after the rollicking the MD gave them on the bus, and the elderley horn player staggering and gasping for life in the ff passages I'm sure we would have come a bit higher. As it is we have closed adjudication like the 1800's with the criteria weighted firmly in the favour of our "best" bands - all based upon a first passed the post system of playing well. The time has come for open criteria based judging, and perhaps a Gold / silver/ bronze system as used in Youth band contesting. My tongue in cheek attempt to bribe an adjudicator was rightly instantly dismissed, but is it really so different from filling the seats in your band with great players and then lording it over everyone else on Whit Friday?

For Heavens Sake ! It's a contest, and there are prizes for lower section bands. Get your act together, get out there and win some. Of course kids are dissapointed when they dont win anything. As the late and great Mr Whitham said, We've all been there. Get over it, get a grip, and get back next year! Good examples, Hawk Green this year, and Darwen last year, both 4th section outfits who put the work in and got lots of 4th section firsts. I don't see them wanting to change the rules! Ciao, Corleone.

[The Godfather]

Well, actually, I only drink coke during the contest. You'd not really want to cheat, would you?

So long as you are only drinking coke, and not sniffing it Mike, I think we can all live with that. See you next year. Ciao, Corleone.

[yoda]

- if Mr Lyons and his colleagues at other venues could have seen the kids in our band - still in tears after the rollicking the MD gave them on the bus, and the elderley horn player staggering and gasping for life in the ff passages I'm sure we would have come a bit higher.

Maybe you should look at the medieval people skills of your MD...................!! Kids being made cry because the were trying their best...............!!

amazing

[jockinafrock]

[QUOTE=hobgoblin;815020] This whole fiasco highlights the need for open adjudication - if Mr Lyons and his colleagues at other venues could have seen the kids in our band - still in tears after the rollicking the MD gave them on the bus, and the elderley horn player staggering and gasping for life in the ff passages I'm sure we would have come a bit higher.

Knowing Mr Lyons, I think he would've made some form of official complaint regarding the treatment of minors in the band, and sent for the St John's Ambulance Brigade for the poor old horn player, rather than bothering about whether he had upset someone by not placing them...

[MoominDave]

How can any one of you not be catching on that hobgoblin is trolling you? Very successfully too, despite the so-obviously made-up bait. I mean, for goodness' sake, they even advertise it in their choice of username...

[Anno Draconis]

if Mr Lyons and his colleagues at other venues could have seen the kids in our band - still in tears after the rollicking the MD gave them on the bus, and the elderley horn player staggering and gasping for life in the ff passages I'm sure we would have come a bit higher.

I assumed that they were in tears at Denton for the same reason I was - they'd tried one of the burgers...

[Bonjour_Laura]

With respect, banding is banding, you win some you loose some, I agree totally with closed adjudication - even with closed adjudication the likes of Fodens, Dyke, Brighouse still come out on top so it shows that it is based on what the adjudicators hear, not what they see (with the exception of deportment) but isn't that what bandings about? Sound, intonation etc.? And as a young player myself, I really disagree with giving younger players a "rollicking" as it does no good in most cases, just scares younger players and they end up not respecting the MD but in effect fearing them, as I know from a personal experience.

[mikelyons]

Anyone who has to scream at a young player to get results is doing something very wrong. It's the sort of thing newbies do, or tyrants or trolls. I prefer bribery, myself. Taking the band to Venice for three days seems to help get the best out of them the rest of the year!

[P_S_Price]

...Fodens, Dyke, Brighouse still come out on top so it shows that it is based on what the adjudicators hear, not what they see ..

However these Bands all have their own Style and Sound. You can usually tell which top band is which if you hear them long enough (apart form the usual on Whit Friday - Dyke always play Knight T - Fodens always The President etc etc).

I would be very suprised if the man in the Box hearing Dyke start up KT doesnt know that it is actually Dyke (and at Delph their cornet player split a note and they still won).

[jockinafrock]

How can any one of you not be catching on that hobgoblin is trolling you? Very successfully too, despite the so-obviously made-up bait. I mean, for goodness' sake, they even advertise it in their choice of username...

Caught on to this one months ago, but still like to give our 2 pennies worth Maybe there should be a new rule where bands can't play the same march in consecutive years?

[Thirteen Ball]

....medieval, meritocracy....

Now there's a contradiciton in terms....